1
00:00:09,150 --> 00:00:21,710
[Music]

2
00:00:28,580 --> 00:00:24,990
you're in the para cast the gold

3
00:00:33,810 --> 00:00:28,590
standard of paranormal radio and now

4
00:00:36,119 --> 00:00:33,820
here's Jeanne Steinberg what a

5
00:00:38,220 --> 00:00:36,129
difference a week makes so one week we

6
00:00:41,009 --> 00:00:38,230
have Robert Shaffer basically saying

7
00:00:43,110 --> 00:00:41,019
that if you saw a UFO you're mistaken

8
00:00:45,360 --> 00:00:43,120
or maybe you're a liar a liar Yeah right

9
00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:45,370
you know and even then he kind of

10
00:00:51,060 --> 00:00:48,010
disputed the extent of the line so Myka

11
00:00:53,220 --> 00:00:51,070
Hanks was supposedly told by him that a

12
00:00:55,560 --> 00:00:53,230
lot of these people liars he said no no

13
00:00:57,420 --> 00:00:55,570
no well maybe some heart but there you

14
00:00:59,760 --> 00:00:57,430
go that's eyewitness testimony for you

15
00:01:03,029 --> 00:00:59,770
you can't trust it and then we get a

16
00:01:07,230 --> 00:01:03,039
real class act chris Rutkowski you know

17
00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:07,240
this is a scientist he's done 25 years

18
00:01:13,520 --> 00:01:10,810
of UFO research captain to this document

19
00:01:17,730 --> 00:01:13,530
with he and his colleagues explore

20
00:01:20,249 --> 00:01:17,740
15,000 UFO cases very careful about what

21
00:01:24,140 --> 00:01:20,259
this testimony and we noticed that the

22
00:01:26,670 --> 00:01:24,150
vast vast majority of those stories were

23
00:01:29,850 --> 00:01:26,680
rejected as something conventional early

24
00:01:32,910 --> 00:01:29,860
on and the stuff that passed muster has

25
00:01:35,280 --> 00:01:32,920
got to be really good yeah but I don't

26
00:01:39,600 --> 00:01:35,290
think it was 14,000 some odd hundred

27
00:01:41,460 --> 00:01:39,610
people that were lying right all I want

28
00:01:44,249 --> 00:01:41,470
to do ladies and gentlemen is to

29
00:01:47,340 --> 00:01:44,259
fabricate a UFO sighting my life depends

30
00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:47,350
on fabricating a UFO sighting I try gene

31
00:01:54,990 --> 00:01:50,890
I tried but unfortunately my my sense of

32
00:01:56,999 --> 00:01:55,000
duty and honesty I called it an IFO when

33
00:01:59,310 --> 00:01:57,009
I posted it online but I hope still

34
00:02:02,039 --> 00:01:59,320
really good I think really good UFO

35
00:02:04,770 --> 00:02:02,049
footage and I think I may have come up

36
00:02:06,719 --> 00:02:04,780
with a possible way to explain the very

37
00:02:09,990 --> 00:02:06,729
famous tim edwards footage that was

38
00:02:14,400 --> 00:02:10,000
captured in august i think of south 95

39
00:02:16,470 --> 00:02:14,410
or was it 94 men years fly to fly by

40
00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:16,480
here 20 years ago for the edwards

41
00:02:20,310 --> 00:02:18,370
footage the daylight footage of the

42
00:02:23,660 --> 00:02:20,320
object skipping around in the air above

43
00:02:26,760 --> 00:02:23,670
Salida Colorado okay I found this

44
00:02:29,010 --> 00:02:26,770
spiderweb that was strung between a tree

45
00:02:32,040 --> 00:02:29,020
in my house and it was perfectly backlit

46
00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:32,050
by the Sun and where the Sun the Sun

47
00:02:36,990 --> 00:02:34,570
appeared that the light refracting

48
00:02:38,610 --> 00:02:37,000
through the the spiderweb because of a

49
00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:38,620
slight breeze the spider would would

50
00:02:43,020 --> 00:02:40,450
move and that light would go up and down

51
00:02:44,790 --> 00:02:43,030
this strand and I grabbed my video

52
00:02:46,500 --> 00:02:44,800
camera and got some incredible footage

53
00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:46,510
it looks just like the Tim Edwards

54
00:02:53,660 --> 00:02:49,210
footage so I really appreciate people

55
00:02:56,010 --> 00:02:53,670
like today's guest Ben Radford who

56
00:02:58,530 --> 00:02:56,020
attempt to apply the scientific method

57
00:03:01,770 --> 00:02:58,540
to explain some of these mysteries that

58
00:03:03,900 --> 00:03:01,780
were also intrigued by but well we'll

59
00:03:07,220 --> 00:03:03,910
get into this later I just I don't like

60
00:03:10,550 --> 00:03:07,230
people that rain on parades and possibly

61
00:03:14,550 --> 00:03:10,560
misrepresent themselves in in some ways

62
00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:14,560
anyway it's gonna be fun I love our

63
00:03:18,750 --> 00:03:16,570
up-and-down teeter-totter act that we've

64
00:03:20,430 --> 00:03:18,760
been doing here the last few you weeks

65
00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:20,440
with this skeptic and then a really good

66
00:03:25,500 --> 00:03:23,290
scientist and this kept ik and I just

67
00:03:28,500 --> 00:03:25,510
love the pair cast for that we we do

68
00:03:31,710 --> 00:03:28,510
kind of go a band flow and up and down

69
00:03:34,560 --> 00:03:31,720
it's really fun now Ben Radford's book

70
00:03:36,750 --> 00:03:34,570
is called mysterious New Mexico so in a

71
00:03:38,910 --> 00:03:36,760
sense he's kind of raining on Chris's

72
00:03:41,430 --> 00:03:38,920
parade there because he's covering some

73
00:03:42,990 --> 00:03:41,440
of the areas that Chris is covered in

74
00:03:44,580 --> 00:03:43,000
the mysterious Valley but he also has a

75
00:03:46,050 --> 00:03:44,590
chapter in here by the way in the book

76
00:03:49,140 --> 00:03:46,060
and weird I asked him about this later

77
00:03:51,660 --> 00:03:49,150
on a chapter on the Aztec New Mexico

78
00:03:53,850 --> 00:03:51,670
case he only mentions Roswell in

79
00:03:56,010 --> 00:03:53,860
connection with a stack but he kind of

80
00:03:57,900 --> 00:03:56,020
gets his facts wrong I don't claim to be

81
00:04:01,680 --> 00:03:57,910
an expert on Aztec but we have had

82
00:04:04,110 --> 00:04:01,690
extensive discussions yes on that

83
00:04:07,380 --> 00:04:04,120
particular case here we've featured

84
00:04:10,199 --> 00:04:07,390
Frank Warren and Scott Ramsey we

85
00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:10,209
featured Kevin Randall we had one of our

86
00:04:16,020 --> 00:04:13,450
former co-host referring to Aztec is the

87
00:04:18,960 --> 00:04:16,030
case that's kind of like Dracula you

88
00:04:23,730 --> 00:04:18,970
drive a stake through it but it always

89
00:04:25,470 --> 00:04:23,740
seems to come back so we'll get into

90
00:04:27,510 --> 00:04:25,480
that and we'll talk about that could be

91
00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:27,520
fascinating but it's interesting when

92
00:04:32,490 --> 00:04:29,770
you do this kind of discussion about the

93
00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:32,500
fact that for the most part the people

94
00:04:38,909 --> 00:04:36,370
who are like a Chris roots Kowski where

95
00:04:40,950 --> 00:04:38,919
they accumulate lots of cases and

96
00:04:43,140 --> 00:04:40,960
thoroughly study them they go out and

97
00:04:44,460 --> 00:04:43,150
actually investigate things they don't

98
00:04:45,550 --> 00:04:44,470
just sit there in the armchair and say

99
00:04:48,010 --> 00:04:45,560
oh it's this it's

100
00:04:50,470 --> 00:04:48,020
the other thing Robert Schaeffer sits

101
00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:50,480
back I don't know how many cases he ever

102
00:04:55,960 --> 00:04:53,090
explored looks like Ben Radford did a

103
00:04:57,430 --> 00:04:55,970
little investigation there I don't know

104
00:05:00,010 --> 00:04:57,440
we'll have to find out more detail about

105
00:05:02,620 --> 00:05:00,020
it but I don't see how you can dismiss

106
00:05:04,510 --> 00:05:02,630
something without investigating you know

107
00:05:08,260 --> 00:05:04,520
I don't know its intellectual dishonesty

108
00:05:11,830 --> 00:05:08,270
I think in many ways especially when you

109
00:05:14,830 --> 00:05:11,840
go out to look into a current case Oh a

110
00:05:17,770 --> 00:05:14,840
case that's you know in in in the fairly

111
00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:17,780
recent past there are so people out

112
00:05:24,070 --> 00:05:20,570
there that can be contacted and you can

113
00:05:26,170 --> 00:05:24,080
go out to particular sites and get the

114
00:05:27,460 --> 00:05:26,180
lay of the land you know and I think

115
00:05:29,890 --> 00:05:27,470
that that's really important boots on

116
00:05:32,320 --> 00:05:29,900
the ground there is no substitute for

117
00:05:34,270 --> 00:05:32,330
that and there's also no substitute for

118
00:05:37,360 --> 00:05:34,280
bringing to bear the scientific method

119
00:05:39,250 --> 00:05:37,370
on the types of cases that we doesn't

120
00:05:42,159 --> 00:05:39,260
discuss here on the podcast and it's

121
00:05:47,250 --> 00:05:42,169
important to to be intellectually honest

122
00:05:49,840 --> 00:05:47,260
with yourself and not be exclusive with

123
00:05:53,230 --> 00:05:49,850
selecting particular data points you

124
00:05:55,330 --> 00:05:53,240
have to look at all the data you can't

125
00:05:58,480 --> 00:05:55,340
just look at a particular slice of that

126
00:06:00,790 --> 00:05:58,490
data that conforms to your potentially

127
00:06:02,490 --> 00:06:00,800
foregone conclusion it's something I've

128
00:06:05,260 --> 00:06:02,500
been harping on here ever since I

129
00:06:07,870 --> 00:06:05,270
started on the pair of cast and I will

130
00:06:11,890 --> 00:06:07,880
continue to do some well the point is

131
00:06:14,320 --> 00:06:11,900
here is that in any particular cases you

132
00:06:19,029 --> 00:06:14,330
investigate you want to look for a

133
00:06:21,969 --> 00:06:19,039
possible mundane answers well sure maybe

134
00:06:23,650 --> 00:06:21,979
UFO photo is something conventional

135
00:06:26,260 --> 00:06:23,660
maybe some people faked the photo

136
00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:26,270
maybe people misidentified something

137
00:06:31,930 --> 00:06:28,490
maybe the apparition they saw is

138
00:06:34,690 --> 00:06:31,940
something particularly mundane get that

139
00:06:36,730 --> 00:06:34,700
out of the way first once you get it out

140
00:06:39,310 --> 00:06:36,740
of the way then you can sit back and

141
00:06:41,350 --> 00:06:39,320
concentrate on the unknowns and see how

142
00:06:43,480 --> 00:06:41,360
many of those cases still pass muster

143
00:06:46,540 --> 00:06:43,490
and you keep reviewing them and

144
00:06:48,790 --> 00:06:46,550
reviewing them as much as possible until

145
00:06:50,710 --> 00:06:48,800
you reach the point of no-return there's

146
00:06:53,260 --> 00:06:50,720
no more information I think in a case

147
00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:53,270
like Roswell I think we've reached the

148
00:06:57,270 --> 00:06:55,610
point long ago where there's no more

149
00:07:00,390 --> 00:06:57,280
information to be had

150
00:07:03,290 --> 00:07:00,400
no even this dream team what have they

151
00:07:06,659 --> 00:07:03,300
produced somebody finds alleged

152
00:07:10,650 --> 00:07:06,669
Kodachrome slides in an attic yeah I

153
00:07:13,970 --> 00:07:10,660
like the Roswell rock it's kind of

154
00:07:17,070 --> 00:07:13,980
resurfacing right now as a news item and

155
00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:17,080
I think somebody is duplicated it

156
00:07:22,940 --> 00:07:19,690
they've gone to the trouble of actually

157
00:07:25,470 --> 00:07:22,950
carving this enigmatic symbol into a

158
00:07:28,620 --> 00:07:25,480
piece of stone I haven't really read

159
00:07:30,270 --> 00:07:28,630
these articles yet but they have to come

160
00:07:33,659 --> 00:07:30,280
up with something new with Roswell so

161
00:07:36,390 --> 00:07:33,669
let's dig up a rock that mirrors uh you

162
00:07:38,909 --> 00:07:36,400
know some crop circle design by hoaxers

163
00:07:42,720 --> 00:07:38,919
in England I'll tell you this is gonna

164
00:07:44,930 --> 00:07:42,730
be the ultimate pun okay the reason they

165
00:07:50,010 --> 00:07:44,940
did that is because they were between a

166
00:07:52,159 --> 00:07:50,020
rock in Roswell even better the article

167
00:07:55,350 --> 00:07:52,169
by the way is called the Roswell rock

168
00:07:59,100 --> 00:07:55,360
over at Kevin Randall's different

169
00:08:01,500 --> 00:07:59,110
perspective blog just Google Kevin

170
00:08:04,310 --> 00:08:01,510
Randle or different perspective the

171
00:08:07,110 --> 00:08:04,320
article is dated Sunday August 31st and

172
00:08:09,930 --> 00:08:07,120
Kevin by the way is kind of

173
00:08:11,100 --> 00:08:09,940
misrepresented in this book by Radford

174
00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:11,110
that's one of the things we're gonna ask

175
00:08:15,870 --> 00:08:13,570
him about what Kevin is a pretty

176
00:08:18,090 --> 00:08:15,880
skeptical guy you think well he believes

177
00:08:23,370 --> 00:08:18,100
in Roswell he's got to be kind of a

178
00:08:26,310 --> 00:08:23,380
gullible guy well no not at all he very

179
00:08:29,909 --> 00:08:26,320
much questions his own believes his own

180
00:08:32,579 --> 00:08:29,919
viewpoints yeah you know uh jingly

181
00:08:35,640 --> 00:08:32,589
fashion very much so he's always a great

182
00:08:37,770 --> 00:08:35,650
guest so for example maybe at one time

183
00:08:40,140 --> 00:08:37,780
he believed in Aztec but he sure doesn't

184
00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:40,150
now in fact we had a very spirited

185
00:08:46,380 --> 00:08:42,250
discussion between him and Scott Ramsey

186
00:08:49,890 --> 00:08:46,390
on a stick now maybe Ramsey had all the

187
00:08:51,930 --> 00:08:49,900
minutiae there that Randall didn't have

188
00:08:55,230 --> 00:08:51,940
but it's still a matter of where is the

189
00:08:57,030 --> 00:08:55,240
evidence at this late stage certainly if

190
00:08:59,610 --> 00:08:57,040
you can't get evidence on Roswell except

191
00:09:03,870 --> 00:08:59,620
for rocks and Kodachrome slides and

192
00:09:06,990 --> 00:09:03,880
someone's attic in a box it's less so

193
00:09:11,070 --> 00:09:07,000
for Aztec or any of those cases I mean

194
00:09:13,290 --> 00:09:11,080
right now with what thirty four years

195
00:09:15,570 --> 00:09:13,300
behind us we got to start cleaning up

196
00:09:17,610 --> 00:09:15,580
Rendlesham and that's another case is

197
00:09:19,380 --> 00:09:17,620
very important by the way Peter Robbins

198
00:09:22,320 --> 00:09:19,390
who was the co-author of left of East

199
00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:22,330
Gate has a new ebook or set of ebook

200
00:09:26,820 --> 00:09:25,330
chapters out covering Rendlesham very

201
00:09:29,180 --> 00:09:26,830
important and we're gonna have Peter

202
00:09:32,010 --> 00:09:29,190
back on the show in the very near future

203
00:09:34,110 --> 00:09:32,020
once he gets a few things cleared up so

204
00:09:36,810 --> 00:09:34,120
I've been talking to him about it anyway

205
00:09:39,930 --> 00:09:36,820
we'll be talking today with Ben Radford

206
00:09:43,020 --> 00:09:39,940
author of mysterious New Mexico miracles

207
00:09:47,070 --> 00:09:43,030
magic and monsters in the Land of

208
00:09:50,470 --> 00:09:47,080
Enchantment sounds enchanting with Gene

209
00:09:57,220 --> 00:09:50,480
and Chris you're in the parata's

210
00:09:59,750 --> 00:09:57,230
[Music]

211
00:10:01,550 --> 00:09:59,760
first game attack of the rockets and it

212
00:10:03,110 --> 00:10:01,560
was a critically acclaimed success and

213
00:10:04,639 --> 00:10:03,120
now there is the coming of the

214
00:10:07,190 --> 00:10:04,649
protectors a former military

215
00:10:09,410 --> 00:10:07,200
intelligence man is contacted by a space

216
00:10:10,610 --> 00:10:09,420
woman in a dream a dream that turns out

217
00:10:12,560 --> 00:10:10,620
to be a nightmare

218
00:10:14,300 --> 00:10:12,570
because evil forces on our distant

219
00:10:16,940 --> 00:10:14,310
planet are planning to conquer the earth

220
00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:16,950
this is gripping science fiction of the

221
00:10:21,470 --> 00:10:19,410
classic kind attack of the rock codes

222
00:10:24,410 --> 00:10:21,480
and the coming of the protectors find

223
00:10:28,100 --> 00:10:24,420
out more at rockets calm that's rockets

224
00:10:29,810 --> 00:10:28,110
our Ock oids calm sea here's what

225
00:10:33,199 --> 00:10:29,820
happened I was placing an order online

226
00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:33,209
the site went down it took hours before

227
00:10:36,889 --> 00:10:35,010
it returned but I'd already placed the

228
00:10:39,350 --> 00:10:36,899
order with another company if your site

229
00:10:40,910 --> 00:10:39,360
goes down you could lose business and if

230
00:10:43,250 --> 00:10:40,920
you have a business or personal site

231
00:10:46,760 --> 00:10:43,260
you'll want to know it's easy to run and

232
00:10:49,160 --> 00:10:46,770
it will stay online at iWeb your site is

233
00:10:51,949 --> 00:10:49,170
hosted on one of the most reliable

234
00:10:55,100 --> 00:10:51,959
networks in the world talk to a sales

235
00:10:57,440 --> 00:10:55,110
rep at iWeb comm use the promo code tech

236
00:10:59,870 --> 00:10:57,450
Nite Owl for a special discount on the

237
00:11:01,490 --> 00:10:59,880
average Americans work between 45 to 50

238
00:11:02,930 --> 00:11:01,500
years hoping to build up enough wealth

239
00:11:05,750 --> 00:11:02,940
to retire and live out their golden

240
00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:05,760
years unfortunately with taxation the

241
00:11:10,519 --> 00:11:08,250
rising cost of food energy housing and

242
00:11:12,590 --> 00:11:10,529
medical many retirees are forced to live

243
00:11:14,750 --> 00:11:12,600
below the poverty line is this a fly

244
00:11:16,430 --> 00:11:14,760
free enterprise or is our monetary unit

245
00:11:18,350 --> 00:11:16,440
we call the Federal Reserve Note forcing

246
00:11:20,329 --> 00:11:18,360
us into perpetual debt ensuring

247
00:11:21,860 --> 00:11:20,339
inflation in higher taxes these

248
00:11:23,810 --> 00:11:21,870
questions and more can be answered by

249
00:11:25,490 --> 00:11:23,820
reading G Edward Griffin book the

250
00:11:27,470 --> 00:11:25,500
creature from Jekyll Island congressman

251
00:11:30,199 --> 00:11:27,480
Ron Paul states it's what every American

252
00:11:32,180 --> 00:11:30,209
needs to know about central bank power a

253
00:11:34,880 --> 00:11:32,190
gripping adventure into the secret world

254
00:11:36,680 --> 00:11:34,890
of international banking cartel hi this

255
00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:36,690
is Ted Anderson I will give a silver

256
00:11:44,820 --> 00:11:38,850
dollar from the early 1900's to anyone

257
00:11:44,830 --> 00:12:10,040
[Music]

258
00:12:15,560 --> 00:12:12,590
my daughter walk all over me I pledge to

259
00:12:18,050 --> 00:12:15,570
stop living in fear of my son's anger I

260
00:12:20,840 --> 00:12:18,060
pledge never to feel like a bad parent

261
00:12:22,910 --> 00:12:20,850
ever again because I'm not I pledge to

262
00:12:25,340 --> 00:12:22,920
stop letting my child's behavior control

263
00:12:28,130 --> 00:12:25,350
my home I pledge to be a mom with kids

264
00:12:30,949 --> 00:12:28,140
who listen a total transformation mom

265
00:12:33,380 --> 00:12:30,959
I'm Janet Lehman co-creator of the total

266
00:12:35,269 --> 00:12:33,390
transformation program we created the

267
00:12:37,550 --> 00:12:35,279
total transformation to help parents

268
00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:37,560
with difficult child behavior now I'm

269
00:12:41,750 --> 00:12:39,810
giving it away free all you need to do

270
00:12:43,460 --> 00:12:41,760
is get the program and let us know how

271
00:12:46,430 --> 00:12:43,470
it works for you we'll let you keep it

272
00:12:48,350 --> 00:12:46,440
for free call 1-800 two five six seven

273
00:12:51,319 --> 00:12:48,360
seven nine five that's one eight hundred

274
00:12:54,470 --> 00:12:51,329
two five six seven seven nine five call

275
00:12:56,750 --> 00:12:54,480
now call 1-800 - five six seven seven

276
00:12:59,990 --> 00:12:56,760
nine five that's one eight hundred two

277
00:13:01,940 --> 00:13:00,000
five six seven seven nine five at 30-day

278
00:13:04,250 --> 00:13:01,950
food supply dot-com you can now purchase

279
00:13:06,980 --> 00:13:04,260
a one-of-a-kind product not available

280
00:13:09,710 --> 00:13:06,990
anywhere else a meatless burger dry mix

281
00:13:11,930 --> 00:13:09,720
in four delicious flavors with our new

282
00:13:14,420 --> 00:13:11,940
Oregon Trail foods vegan burgers all you

283
00:13:16,310 --> 00:13:14,430
do is add water and fry they need no

284
00:13:18,500 --> 00:13:16,320
refrigeration they're packaged in mylar

285
00:13:20,600 --> 00:13:18,510
bags with an oxygen absorber for a long

286
00:13:22,670 --> 00:13:20,610
shelf-life they're non-gmo they're

287
00:13:24,650 --> 00:13:22,680
gluten soy nut in chemical free but

288
00:13:26,569 --> 00:13:24,660
they're loaded with flavor and a good

289
00:13:29,090 --> 00:13:26,579
source of carbs and protein yet low in

290
00:13:31,069 --> 00:13:29,100
sodium flavors include Italian spicy

291
00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:31,079
Mexican six vegetable and black bean

292
00:13:36,470 --> 00:13:34,170
olive go-to 30-day food supply calm or

293
00:13:39,889 --> 00:13:36,480
call five four one two two nine zero

294
00:13:42,110 --> 00:13:39,899
zero one zero and order today eat them

295
00:13:44,030 --> 00:13:42,120
every day take them camping or save them

296
00:13:46,760 --> 00:13:44,040
for an emergency check them out at

297
00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:46,770
30-day food supply calm and click on the

298
00:13:51,650 --> 00:13:49,410
vegan burger icon that's 30 day food

299
00:13:53,930 --> 00:13:51,660
supply calm where all of our products

300
00:14:03,019 --> 00:13:53,940
are produced in Oregon by Oregon Trail

301
00:14:07,859 --> 00:14:05,639
hello this is for us Mary Ellen Kylie

302
00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:07,869
and you're listening to the podcast the

303
00:14:24,359 --> 00:14:21,610
gold standard of paranormal radio yeah

304
00:14:29,039 --> 00:14:24,369
yeah everybody's checking the deepness

305
00:14:30,239 --> 00:14:29,049
of their voices we show my balls for you

306
00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:30,249
guys just for you guys

307
00:14:39,299 --> 00:14:36,970
you rang yeah people are gonna wonder

308
00:14:41,100 --> 00:14:39,309
what this radio show is all about it's

309
00:14:43,769 --> 00:14:41,110
about a book from Benjamin Radford

310
00:14:46,139 --> 00:14:43,779
called mysterious New Mexico he joins us

311
00:14:49,590 --> 00:14:46,149
on the power cast to talk about the book

312
00:14:52,259 --> 00:14:49,600
with a subtitle miracles magic and

313
00:14:56,609 --> 00:14:52,269
monsters in the land of enchantment

314
00:14:58,710 --> 00:14:56,619
yes yes yes he doesn't Orson well I

315
00:15:00,389 --> 00:14:58,720
can't do the Orson Welles but yes like

316
00:15:03,329 --> 00:15:00,399
like pinky in the brain you know when

317
00:15:05,699 --> 00:15:03,339
the brain the the Animaniacs cartoon the

318
00:15:06,960 --> 00:15:05,709
guy that did the voice of the brain he

319
00:15:09,629 --> 00:15:06,970
was talking about how he would

320
00:15:12,179 --> 00:15:09,639
intentionally put in some Orson Welles

321
00:15:15,329 --> 00:15:12,189
and into the the brain stories it was a

322
00:15:17,160 --> 00:15:15,339
it was a great mo mo mo Mowlam arch

323
00:15:19,859 --> 00:15:17,170
that's what it was well you know Orson

324
00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:19,869
Welles was also famous for being one of

325
00:15:24,660 --> 00:15:21,610
the youngers actors to portray the

326
00:15:26,819 --> 00:15:24,670
shadow on radio but he could never get

327
00:15:30,150 --> 00:15:26,829
the laugh right they had to use someone

328
00:15:32,579 --> 00:15:30,160
else's laugh you know we did this that

329
00:15:35,369 --> 00:15:32,589
kind of thing couldn't do it he couldn't

330
00:15:36,809 --> 00:15:35,379
he had the right voice for Lamont

331
00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:36,819
Cranston and the shadow which is

332
00:15:40,799 --> 00:15:38,410
basically just putting a filter in front

333
00:15:42,660 --> 00:15:40,809
of your mouth I am the shadow that kind

334
00:15:45,179 --> 00:15:42,670
of thing right but he couldn't do the

335
00:15:48,239 --> 00:15:45,189
laugh isn't that one kid that is bizarre

336
00:15:50,549 --> 00:15:48,249
I'm a big cinema file fan so I'm a fan

337
00:15:52,650 --> 00:15:50,559
of lighted lots of Orson Welles stuff

338
00:15:54,900 --> 00:15:52,660
from the third man of course to Citizen

339
00:15:56,749 --> 00:15:54,910
Kane and all that but I have to say one

340
00:15:59,369 --> 00:15:56,759
of the Orson's given me some of the most

341
00:16:01,199 --> 00:15:59,379
robust laughs in the past few years if

342
00:16:03,929 --> 00:16:01,209
you've ever gone on YouTube and seen his

343
00:16:06,869 --> 00:16:03,939
his drunk Paul Masson commercials it's

344
00:16:12,019 --> 00:16:06,879
it's just golden we will sell no wine

345
00:16:15,750 --> 00:16:14,070
so ladies and gentlemen what's gonna

346
00:16:17,700 --> 00:16:15,760
happen here is when they review us on

347
00:16:20,570 --> 00:16:17,710
iTunes they're gonna say all the power

348
00:16:23,610 --> 00:16:20,580
cast does is try to imitate Orson Welles

349
00:16:26,100 --> 00:16:23,620
they tried to be like the shadow on all

350
00:16:28,079 --> 00:16:26,110
those were evil lurks and forget it

351
00:16:30,810 --> 00:16:28,089
they're trying to do that and that's not

352
00:16:33,930 --> 00:16:30,820
what the show is all no maybe it's the

353
00:16:36,300 --> 00:16:33,940
mindset of mysterious New Mexico yes yes

354
00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:36,310
that's what does it the you know Ben I

355
00:16:40,980 --> 00:16:38,410
think you should call this book the not

356
00:16:43,560 --> 00:16:40,990
so Smith Sirius New Mexico based on a

357
00:16:45,780 --> 00:16:43,570
lot of the the work that you put into

358
00:16:48,090 --> 00:16:45,790
this book you popping a lot of balloons

359
00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:48,100
here buddy well you know it's it's

360
00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:50,170
interesting I you know part of the

361
00:16:54,090 --> 00:16:51,850
reason the the way that this whole book

362
00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:54,100
came about is that I had done as you

363
00:16:57,540 --> 00:16:55,810
guys know I'd done a previous book for

364
00:16:59,690 --> 00:16:57,550
the University of New Mexico press you

365
00:17:01,769 --> 00:16:59,700
and Empress on the chupacabra and

366
00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:01,779
solving the Chupacabra mystery it's

367
00:17:05,069 --> 00:17:03,130
called tracked and chill of your oven

368
00:17:06,840 --> 00:17:05,079
legend actually technically it's not an

369
00:17:11,460 --> 00:17:06,850
urban legend in the countryside

370
00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:11,470
oh so it's a country legend there are

371
00:17:16,590 --> 00:17:14,410
the the banjo pickin legend okay so now

372
00:17:18,660 --> 00:17:16,600
we have the stereotype if you live in

373
00:17:21,030 --> 00:17:18,670
the country you gotta pick the banjo

374
00:17:22,890 --> 00:17:21,040
well how many banjo Pickers do you see

375
00:17:25,350 --> 00:17:22,900
just walking around major cities not

376
00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:25,360
many am i right Nashville Nashville is a

377
00:17:29,250 --> 00:17:26,650
pretty big city okay other than

378
00:17:31,500 --> 00:17:29,260
Nashville awesome my point Stan

379
00:17:34,220 --> 00:17:31,510
so the point here is that I did the

380
00:17:35,460 --> 00:17:34,230
Chupacabra book for UNM press and it was

381
00:17:36,810 --> 00:17:35,470
well-received

382
00:17:38,930 --> 00:17:36,820
I was actually very pleased about it

383
00:17:41,880 --> 00:17:38,940
because not only was it well received in

384
00:17:43,590 --> 00:17:41,890
cryptozoology circles and skeptics even

385
00:17:45,450 --> 00:17:43,600
many believers sort of had to grudgingly

386
00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:45,460
admit that you know I I had either

387
00:17:49,799 --> 00:17:47,530
solved the case or damn near solved the

388
00:17:53,010 --> 00:17:49,809
case and and absolutely and III would

389
00:17:54,900 --> 00:17:53,020
concur well I appreciate that what was

390
00:17:56,760 --> 00:17:54,910
particularly gratifying about it was

391
00:17:58,650 --> 00:17:56,770
that it was also well received in

392
00:18:01,470 --> 00:17:58,660
academic community it was well it was

393
00:18:03,150 --> 00:18:01,480
well well reviewed in folklore journals

394
00:18:04,500 --> 00:18:03,160
for example you know people who who

395
00:18:06,810 --> 00:18:04,510
really know their stuff and they said

396
00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:06,820
wow you know this is a cryptozoology

397
00:18:11,070 --> 00:18:08,530
sort of monstery mystery mystery book

398
00:18:12,990 --> 00:18:11,080
but it's it's also you know a good

399
00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:13,000
example of how to do good research and

400
00:18:16,980 --> 00:18:14,890
scholarship which is sort of you know my

401
00:18:19,530 --> 00:18:16,990
forte and so what happened was that

402
00:18:21,060 --> 00:18:19,540
after that book came out in 2010 my

403
00:18:23,230 --> 00:18:21,070
editor over you and Empress said hey you

404
00:18:25,810 --> 00:18:23,240
know I know you've done all these other

405
00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:25,820
except in six other books everything

406
00:18:29,440 --> 00:18:28,010
from lake monster mysteries to media

407
00:18:31,590 --> 00:18:29,450
panics and hoaxes and this and that and

408
00:18:33,160 --> 00:18:31,600
he said well you know you've done this

409
00:18:34,900 --> 00:18:33,170
investigations all over the world

410
00:18:35,740 --> 00:18:34,910
including you know Loch Ness in Africa

411
00:18:37,540 --> 00:18:35,750
and South America

412
00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:37,550
what about here in New Mexico about our

413
00:18:41,620 --> 00:18:40,250
own home state and he said you know

414
00:18:43,750 --> 00:18:41,630
there's there's no shortage of weirdness

415
00:18:45,490 --> 00:18:43,760
here and I said that that you got that

416
00:18:50,350 --> 00:18:45,500
right well Chris doesn't live there

417
00:18:52,270 --> 00:18:50,360
anymore so I never did that just that

418
00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:52,280
just made it all the more strange so

419
00:18:55,900 --> 00:18:53,690
they said yes so why don't we go ahead

420
00:18:58,060 --> 00:18:55,910
and do some investigations and I had

421
00:18:59,440 --> 00:18:58,070
already to be honest I've already some

422
00:19:01,630 --> 00:18:59,450
of these though I mean the book is a

423
00:19:02,950 --> 00:19:01,640
collection of 13 investigations I've

424
00:19:04,299 --> 00:19:02,960
done over the year so it's not like I

425
00:19:06,730 --> 00:19:04,309
did all these within the last few years

426
00:19:08,110 --> 00:19:06,740
although some of them I did and so it

427
00:19:10,330 --> 00:19:08,120
was basically an opportunity for me to

428
00:19:13,690 --> 00:19:10,340
collect mysteries and miracles and

429
00:19:15,070 --> 00:19:13,700
unusual cases that either had these are

430
00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:15,080
were here in New Mexico most of them

431
00:19:19,750 --> 00:19:18,050
were or had some fairly significant New

432
00:19:22,660 --> 00:19:19,760
Mexico connection for example the

433
00:19:25,570 --> 00:19:22,670
crystal skulls case is primarily to be

434
00:19:27,490 --> 00:19:25,580
fair primarily a Colorado but as Chris

435
00:19:29,650 --> 00:19:27,500
knows but it does have some connections

436
00:19:31,090 --> 00:19:29,660
to New Mexico so I felt it was it was

437
00:19:33,580 --> 00:19:31,100
interesting and unique enough and had

438
00:19:34,510 --> 00:19:33,590
enough New Mexico connections to include

439
00:19:36,370 --> 00:19:34,520
it okay

440
00:19:40,270 --> 00:19:36,380
now I'm just curious about one thing

441
00:19:43,870 --> 00:19:40,280
here in mysterious New Mexico you have a

442
00:19:46,180 --> 00:19:43,880
chapter on the Aztec UFO but not about

443
00:19:48,460 --> 00:19:46,190
Roswell except to mention it a number of

444
00:19:50,169 --> 00:19:48,470
times in connection with a snake is

445
00:19:51,580 --> 00:19:50,179
there a reason for that yeah there's

446
00:19:54,580 --> 00:19:51,590
actually a couple reasons for that one

447
00:19:57,250 --> 00:19:54,590
was that what I try to do in and my

448
00:19:59,080 --> 00:19:57,260
research in my my work is to I try not

449
00:20:01,030 --> 00:19:59,090
to reinvent the wheel and there's lots

450
00:20:04,150 --> 00:20:01,040
and lots and lots of places where you

451
00:20:07,210 --> 00:20:04,160
can find information some good some bad

452
00:20:10,690 --> 00:20:07,220
on Roswell crash the Roswell crash in

453
00:20:12,610 --> 00:20:10,700
1947 here in New Mexico is is pretty

454
00:20:15,669 --> 00:20:12,620
well picked over that doesn't of course

455
00:20:18,310 --> 00:20:15,679
stop UFO proponents from cranking out a

456
00:20:21,310 --> 00:20:18,320
new untold secrets of Roswell every

457
00:20:23,470 --> 00:20:21,320
every year or two but the simple fact is

458
00:20:24,940 --> 00:20:23,480
that for the most part that the skeptics

459
00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:24,950
and skeptical community have done a

460
00:20:29,650 --> 00:20:28,010
pretty robust job between Robert Schafer

461
00:20:31,810 --> 00:20:29,660
and Dave Thomas and Phil class and

462
00:20:34,540 --> 00:20:31,820
others of addressing that the roswell

463
00:20:36,010 --> 00:20:34,550
claims and i know quite a bit about it

464
00:20:37,049 --> 00:20:36,020
it's just not something that i really

465
00:20:38,580 --> 00:20:37,059
was it

466
00:20:40,889 --> 00:20:38,590
doing partly because again it's already

467
00:20:43,289 --> 00:20:40,899
been done it's already been buried but

468
00:20:45,210 --> 00:20:43,299
the other thing about it is that you

469
00:20:46,889 --> 00:20:45,220
still hear the stories like Kevin Randle

470
00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:46,899
covers this silly story about this

471
00:20:52,019 --> 00:20:49,330
Roswell rock but nobody could possibly

472
00:20:53,759 --> 00:20:52,029
believe and remember we understand here

473
00:20:57,269 --> 00:20:53,769
Kevin is a guy who thinks something

474
00:20:59,279 --> 00:20:57,279
alien happened at Roswell but he's still

475
00:21:00,930 --> 00:20:59,289
not going to accept everything right

476
00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:00,940
he's going to be pretty sensible about

477
00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:04,330
it but isn't also true that Aztec has

478
00:21:08,700 --> 00:21:06,490
been pretty well covered over and over

479
00:21:10,649 --> 00:21:08,710
and really hasn't been given much

480
00:21:14,039 --> 00:21:10,659
credibility except by a small number of

481
00:21:16,499 --> 00:21:14,049
people so why bring up Aztec you see

482
00:21:18,269 --> 00:21:16,509
Roswell at least even if there's not new

483
00:21:20,639 --> 00:21:18,279
evidence we can debate the meaning of

484
00:21:23,009 --> 00:21:20,649
what there is but as text seems to be so

485
00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:23,019
much of a lesser story well it's a

486
00:21:27,810 --> 00:21:25,690
lesser story within the within the UFO

487
00:21:29,820 --> 00:21:27,820
community I mean this is the thing to

488
00:21:32,129 --> 00:21:29,830
recognize that mysterious New Mexico is

489
00:21:35,430 --> 00:21:32,139
intended to be a sort of a lay audience

490
00:21:37,619 --> 00:21:35,440
general audience and so you're exactly

491
00:21:38,460 --> 00:21:37,629
right you know within within skeptics in

492
00:21:41,850 --> 00:21:38,470
the UFO community

493
00:21:44,249 --> 00:21:41,860
the Aztec is null is his old hat but I

494
00:21:45,419 --> 00:21:44,259
can tell you over and over again the

495
00:21:47,820 --> 00:21:45,429
book has now been out for about six

496
00:21:49,350 --> 00:21:47,830
weeks now and I've had several people

497
00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:49,360
come up to me and say wow I've never

498
00:21:54,239 --> 00:21:51,730
even heard of Aztec I had you know I

499
00:21:57,029 --> 00:21:54,249
everyone always thinks of UFO crashes

500
00:21:59,460 --> 00:21:57,039
and Roswell and so I've had lots of

501
00:22:01,049 --> 00:21:59,470
people who never even heard of the story

502
00:22:03,509 --> 00:22:01,059
much less you know all its intricacies

503
00:22:05,129 --> 00:22:03,519
and so because the book is aimed at a

504
00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:05,139
broader audience of people who are

505
00:22:09,090 --> 00:22:07,450
interested in you know unusual and

506
00:22:11,279 --> 00:22:09,100
strange occurrences in New Mexico and

507
00:22:13,710 --> 00:22:11,289
and certainly at the Aztec UFO crash

508
00:22:16,590 --> 00:22:13,720
whether you're a believer of skeptic I

509
00:22:19,139 --> 00:22:16,600
mean it's a bizarre story either way and

510
00:22:20,669 --> 00:22:19,149
and therefore warrants a chapter in

511
00:22:22,019 --> 00:22:20,679
there a couple of things I wanted to ask

512
00:22:24,419 --> 00:22:22,029
you about that because I was confused

513
00:22:26,999 --> 00:22:24,429
about some of the items so we have the

514
00:22:30,119 --> 00:22:27,009
gentleman who worked for a San Francisco

515
00:22:33,239 --> 00:22:30,129
newspaper JP Kahn and he writes an

516
00:22:35,489 --> 00:22:33,249
expose of Frank Scully's book behind the

517
00:22:36,930 --> 00:22:35,499
flying saucers now that's the beginning

518
00:22:39,389 --> 00:22:36,940
of the framing of the question I'll ask

519
00:22:41,399 --> 00:22:39,399
you more in our next segment Benjamin

520
00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:41,409
Radford joins us with Jean and Chris

521
00:22:50,260 --> 00:22:48,090
[Music]

522
00:22:53,170 --> 00:22:50,270
independently leading the way for the

523
00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:53,180
nation compelling talk for every

524
00:23:01,540 --> 00:22:54,650
political persuasion

525
00:23:04,330 --> 00:23:01,550
we are G C head is there a secret UFO

526
00:23:06,700 --> 00:23:04,340
agenda to stranged creatures from the

527
00:23:09,070 --> 00:23:06,710
darkest corners of the mind roam the

528
00:23:12,250 --> 00:23:09,080
earth is there evidence for mind control

529
00:23:15,310 --> 00:23:12,260
time travel or devious government

530
00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:15,320
conspiracies find out the inside scoop

531
00:23:20,410 --> 00:23:17,810
on the latest conspiracies paranormal

532
00:23:22,060 --> 00:23:20,420
activity and important phenomena when

533
00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:22,070
you subscribe to Tim Beckley's

534
00:23:26,500 --> 00:23:23,570
conspiracy Turo

535
00:23:28,870 --> 00:23:26,510
it's jam-packed with stories special

536
00:23:31,570 --> 00:23:28,880
book and DVD promotions and the best

537
00:23:34,930 --> 00:23:31,580
news is absolutely free instead of right

538
00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:34,940
to your mailbox plus a bonus free email

539
00:23:40,540 --> 00:23:38,690
newsletter sent out every Friday simply

540
00:23:45,490 --> 00:23:40,550
send an email with your name and address

541
00:23:50,980 --> 00:23:45,500
to Mister UFO at what TV net attached

542
00:23:54,060 --> 00:23:50,990
mr. UFO at web TV dotnet find out what

543
00:23:58,740 --> 00:23:54,070
they don't want you to know

544
00:24:01,060 --> 00:23:58,750
[Music]

545
00:24:03,220 --> 00:24:01,070
don't complain about your cable bill

546
00:24:05,230 --> 00:24:03,230
going up and up and I'll do something

547
00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:05,240
about it grab a pencil and jot down this

548
00:24:10,660 --> 00:24:08,810
special number one 855 905 my TV the

549
00:24:13,270 --> 00:24:10,670
more cable TV rates go up the better

550
00:24:15,070 --> 00:24:13,280
digital satellite TV looks say goodbye

551
00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:15,080
to the Cable Guy and get more of your

552
00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:17,090
favorite channels in 100% digital

553
00:24:21,820 --> 00:24:18,410
quality for less money

554
00:24:23,950 --> 00:24:21,830
call 185 v 905 my TV sign up for

555
00:24:25,690 --> 00:24:23,960
packages starting as low as $19.99 and

556
00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:25,700
there's no equipment to buy you get free

557
00:24:30,790 --> 00:24:28,730
HD TV upgrade a free DVR upgraded free

558
00:24:33,220 --> 00:24:30,800
professional installation you control

559
00:24:34,990 --> 00:24:33,230
what you watch when you watch it record

560
00:24:37,990 --> 00:24:35,000
your favorite shows pause and rewind

561
00:24:40,900 --> 00:24:38,000
live TV even skip the commercials watch

562
00:24:41,770 --> 00:24:40,910
local channels too at just $19.99 what

563
00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:41,780
are you waiting for

564
00:24:49,390 --> 00:24:43,730
pull out your major credit or debit card

565
00:24:51,970 --> 00:24:49,400
call 185 905 my TV 180 55 905 my TV say

566
00:24:58,770 --> 00:24:51,980
goodbye to the Cable Guy cut costs and

567
00:25:01,960 --> 00:24:58,780
get more 180 55 905 my TV 185 905 my TV

568
00:25:04,690 --> 00:25:01,970
if you need to say happy birthday happy

569
00:25:07,360 --> 00:25:04,700
anniversary thank you or simply I'm

570
00:25:09,670 --> 00:25:07,370
thinking of you proflowers.com is the

571
00:25:12,360 --> 00:25:09,680
key ProFlowers has stunning bouquets

572
00:25:15,490 --> 00:25:12,370
like the best-selling 100 blooms for

573
00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:15,500
$19.99 plus ProFlowers will include a

574
00:25:19,750 --> 00:25:17,930
glass vase for free sending someone a

575
00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:19,760
wonderful surprise of beautiful flowers

576
00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:22,490
scent fresh from the field is easy

577
00:25:27,370 --> 00:25:24,650
choose the bouquet you like pick the

578
00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:27,380
delivery date and each order is 100%

579
00:25:32,350 --> 00:25:30,410
guaranteed plus all bouquets from pro

580
00:25:35,470 --> 00:25:32,360
flowers are guaranteed to last at least

581
00:25:37,540 --> 00:25:35,480
seven full days beautiful fragrant

582
00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:37,550
flowers picked fresh and sent to your

583
00:25:42,070 --> 00:25:39,890
loved one for lasting enjoyment to get

584
00:25:45,060 --> 00:25:42,080
this incredible savings and send someone

585
00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:45,070
100 gorgeous blooms with a free vase for

586
00:25:50,470 --> 00:25:48,770
$19.99 go to proflowers.com click the

587
00:25:52,780 --> 00:25:50,480
blue microphone in the top right corner

588
00:25:54,190 --> 00:25:52,790
and enter code plow that's

589
00:25:58,990 --> 00:25:54,200
proflowers.com

590
00:26:00,340 --> 00:25:59,000
click the mic and enter code PLO w does

591
00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:00,350
advertising on the genesis

592
00:26:03,700 --> 00:26:01,970
communications radio network actually

593
00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:03,710
bring positive results

594
00:26:07,630 --> 00:26:05,810
let's ask Thomas Baltar come freeze-dry

595
00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:07,640
guy and do the GC and listeners let you

596
00:26:10,740 --> 00:26:09,010
know they heard your ad

597
00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:10,750
first do let us know they've heard

598
00:26:15,990 --> 00:26:13,570
freeze-dried diets on GC and they seem

599
00:26:17,940 --> 00:26:16,000
to be very loyal listeners to GCN and

600
00:26:19,590 --> 00:26:17,950
they stay with those shows and

601
00:26:21,210 --> 00:26:19,600
subsequently they stay with our business

602
00:26:23,130 --> 00:26:21,220
- looking for positive results

603
00:26:25,890 --> 00:26:23,140
contact Li wick announcer at eight seven

604
00:26:29,370 --> 00:26:25,900
seven nine nine six four three two seven

605
00:26:30,990 --> 00:26:29,380
extension one zero seven this is Dan

606
00:26:33,210 --> 00:26:31,000
Pihl do you owe the IRS money you can't

607
00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:33,220
pay our tax debts crippling you I've

608
00:26:37,050 --> 00:26:34,930
defended people from the IRS for over

609
00:26:39,330 --> 00:26:37,060
thirty years I've helped thousands and I

610
00:26:40,770 --> 00:26:39,340
can help you - I wrote the book on IRS

611
00:26:43,010 --> 00:26:40,780
settlement and I'm telling you there's

612
00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:43,020
no such thing as a hopeless case call

613
00:26:47,940 --> 00:26:46,210
834 no tax to finally get free of IRS

614
00:26:49,410 --> 00:26:47,950
debt with the IRS as new programs

615
00:26:52,170 --> 00:26:49,420
there's never been a better time to

616
00:26:55,980 --> 00:26:52,180
solve your problem call 834 no tax

617
00:27:03,330 --> 00:26:55,990
that's 803 for no tax or my website Dan

618
00:27:04,980 --> 00:27:03,340
kalam we'd like to hear from you if you

619
00:27:08,250 --> 00:27:04,990
have a comment or question about the

620
00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:08,260
Peres cast sent it to Muse at the Peres

621
00:27:12,930 --> 00:27:09,490
cast com

622
00:27:14,940 --> 00:27:12,940
that's news at the Peres cast calm and

623
00:27:18,120 --> 00:27:14,950
don't forget to visit our famous para

624
00:27:22,350 --> 00:27:18,130
cast community forums at forum dot the

625
00:27:24,810 --> 00:27:22,360
Peres cast comm we are visiting

626
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:24,820
mysterious New Mexico there's not much

627
00:27:30,930 --> 00:27:27,010
in UFOs there but he does cover the

628
00:27:34,740 --> 00:27:30,940
Aztec crash from 1948 alleged as Allegra

629
00:27:37,910 --> 00:27:34,750
fair enough from 47 the alleged has tech

630
00:27:41,010 --> 00:27:37,920
crash there you go well done alleged

631
00:27:44,130 --> 00:27:41,020
Aztec New Mexico is actually having the

632
00:27:47,310 --> 00:27:44,140
1948 folks okay all right I'm just okay

633
00:27:50,100 --> 00:27:47,320
right they have an arch of 1948 let's

634
00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:50,110
get the facts right okay right now it

635
00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:52,570
first showed up in any particular detail

636
00:27:58,200 --> 00:27:56,170
in a book by Frank Scully called behind

637
00:28:00,750 --> 00:27:58,210
the flying saucers and let's explain who

638
00:28:04,410 --> 00:28:00,760
Frank Scully was he was a gossip

639
00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:04,420
columnist for variety now I don't know

640
00:28:08,310 --> 00:28:06,490
about you but you know we're talking

641
00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:08,320
about an entertainment reporter here a

642
00:28:12,780 --> 00:28:10,090
gossip columnist you know he maybe in

643
00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:12,790
the late 40s early 50s he'll tell you

644
00:28:17,340 --> 00:28:14,530
who Frank Sinatra was dating at the time

645
00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:17,350
exactly that that's his beats because

646
00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:19,690
that was his beat he was not a serious

647
00:28:22,850 --> 00:28:22,210
journalist didn't pretend to be but then

648
00:28:25,610 --> 00:28:22,860
it comes out

649
00:28:28,759 --> 00:28:25,620
with behind the flying saucers and my

650
00:28:29,090 --> 00:28:28,769
impression of this is that he believed

651
00:28:31,100 --> 00:28:29,100
it

652
00:28:32,690 --> 00:28:31,110
mm-hmm you could say he's gullible you

653
00:28:35,180 --> 00:28:32,700
can say he was taken in by a couple of

654
00:28:35,870 --> 00:28:35,190
con men but he believed it it no pun

655
00:28:43,130 --> 00:28:35,880
intended

656
00:28:46,060 --> 00:28:43,140
yes I I'm getting married this as I get

657
00:28:49,430 --> 00:28:46,070
older I get worse at this no seriously

658
00:28:51,380 --> 00:28:49,440
okay so he's second in by this con man

659
00:28:53,750 --> 00:28:51,390
then another guy named con from San

660
00:28:57,799 --> 00:28:53,760
Francisco exposes it his articles were

661
00:28:59,870 --> 00:28:57,809
in true magazine around 1952 sounds

662
00:29:01,009 --> 00:28:59,880
about right and it was true magazine for

663
00:29:03,740 --> 00:29:01,019
those who wonder what I'm talking about

664
00:29:07,519 --> 00:29:03,750
true magazine what's that well back in

665
00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:07,529
the early days in the 20th century you

666
00:29:11,330 --> 00:29:09,330
had these so-called men's action

667
00:29:13,820 --> 00:29:11,340
magazines men of action

668
00:29:16,879 --> 00:29:13,830
and it was true it was Argosy it was

669
00:29:19,519 --> 00:29:16,889
saga and they would also cover UFOs

670
00:29:22,340 --> 00:29:19,529
paranormal stuff but the most famous

671
00:29:24,799 --> 00:29:22,350
thing is that kind of magazine featured

672
00:29:27,049 --> 00:29:24,809
the first stories by Edgar Rice

673
00:29:30,289 --> 00:29:27,059
Burroughs if the early part of the 20th

674
00:29:32,810 --> 00:29:30,299
century Tarzan John Carter of Mars they

675
00:29:36,850 --> 00:29:32,820
came out in these men's magazines so

676
00:29:40,669 --> 00:29:36,860
true magazine carries a story in 1952

677
00:29:44,450 --> 00:29:40,679
exposing the Aztec case and the main

678
00:29:48,500 --> 00:29:44,460
reason is the two major sources G Bower

679
00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:48,510
in Newton work on men the confidence men

680
00:29:52,850 --> 00:29:50,250
they're fooling people they're taking

681
00:29:56,799 --> 00:29:52,860
their money and you mentioned in the

682
00:29:59,690 --> 00:29:56,809
book also that they were found guilty

683
00:30:03,889 --> 00:29:59,700
mm-hmm they were they're found guilty

684
00:30:05,389 --> 00:30:03,899
and that they were convicted of crimes

685
00:30:06,860 --> 00:30:05,399
where they could spend many years in

686
00:30:08,180 --> 00:30:06,870
jail but I understand they never

687
00:30:11,450 --> 00:30:08,190
actually spent time in jail is that

688
00:30:14,539 --> 00:30:11,460
correct you know I I don't remember the

689
00:30:18,049 --> 00:30:14,549
the exact follow-up to the to the Newton

690
00:30:20,539 --> 00:30:18,059
in our criminal trial in many ways

691
00:30:23,659 --> 00:30:20,549
partly because it's it's actually not

692
00:30:25,549 --> 00:30:23,669
that relevant to to the whole UFO crash

693
00:30:28,100 --> 00:30:25,559
and in terms of we we know for a fact

694
00:30:31,039 --> 00:30:28,110
that they were con men we know for a

695
00:30:33,350 --> 00:30:31,049
fact that they fed the story to to

696
00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:33,360
Scully and then con you know when did

697
00:30:36,740 --> 00:30:36,090
research on that and so you know taints

698
00:30:38,270 --> 00:30:36,750
your question I

699
00:30:41,210 --> 00:30:38,280
I've forgotten off the top my head

700
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:41,220
exactly you know who spent what time in

701
00:30:46,730 --> 00:30:43,730
jail just cuz it's not actually that

702
00:30:47,930 --> 00:30:46,740
relevant to the whole UFO cover-up story

703
00:30:51,530 --> 00:30:47,940
it's sort of you know an interesting

704
00:30:53,900 --> 00:30:51,540
after part but but certainly we you know

705
00:30:55,250 --> 00:30:53,910
they were convicted and you know part of

706
00:30:57,260 --> 00:30:55,260
the problem isn't interesting because if

707
00:30:59,180 --> 00:30:57,270
you look at the timeline on this there

708
00:31:00,890 --> 00:30:59,190
was I think about over a decade or

709
00:31:02,630 --> 00:31:00,900
nearly a decade between the time when

710
00:31:04,580 --> 00:31:02,640
they were finally essentially caught and

711
00:31:06,470 --> 00:31:04,590
the time they were convicted so I I

712
00:31:09,260 --> 00:31:06,480
actually don't know why it took so long

713
00:31:11,350 --> 00:31:09,270
and when I was talking to two robber

714
00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:11,360
Shaffir and going through Kahn's work

715
00:31:16,940 --> 00:31:14,970
now he does talk about how there were

716
00:31:18,530 --> 00:31:16,950
problems in assembling the case against

717
00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:18,540
these two con men partly because for

718
00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:20,850
example people were reluctant to come

719
00:31:25,190 --> 00:31:22,410
forward they they didn't want to admit

720
00:31:26,270 --> 00:31:25,200
that they and you know what we're

721
00:31:27,590 --> 00:31:26,280
talking about now I wasn't gonna make

722
00:31:28,700 --> 00:31:27,600
sense to people who haven't read the

723
00:31:30,590 --> 00:31:28,710
chapter who don't know the whole story

724
00:31:32,810 --> 00:31:30,600
but they for example didn't want to

725
00:31:34,970 --> 00:31:32,820
admit that they'd been scammed by these

726
00:31:37,610 --> 00:31:34,980
con men who were selling them technology

727
00:31:39,860 --> 00:31:37,620
allegedly from Venus and so there there

728
00:31:41,660 --> 00:31:39,870
was a reluctance to sort of come forward

729
00:31:44,060 --> 00:31:41,670
and so Pete some people have to sort of

730
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:44,070
be you know say well look you know we

731
00:31:47,210 --> 00:31:45,450
need someone to testify against these

732
00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:47,220
people so I think that that's part of

733
00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:47,850
the story

734
00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:51,570
okay so in passing though it might have

735
00:31:56,270 --> 00:31:54,090
been worth adding a sentence or checking

736
00:31:58,100 --> 00:31:56,280
it out no despite being convicted they

737
00:31:59,900 --> 00:31:58,110
really didn't go to jail but let's look

738
00:32:01,790 --> 00:31:59,910
at the case itself mm-hmm because this

739
00:32:05,210 --> 00:32:01,800
is it be interesting now let's continue

740
00:32:09,470 --> 00:32:05,220
okay all right so we have the situation

741
00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:09,480
here where you imply that Kevin Randle

742
00:32:14,210 --> 00:32:11,610
believes in this and maybe he did 25

743
00:32:16,790 --> 00:32:14,220
years ago but he's famously been on the

744
00:32:18,710 --> 00:32:16,800
power cast a few times and written

745
00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:18,720
extensively in his blog a different

746
00:32:24,430 --> 00:32:21,770
perspective but he doesn't by Astec

747
00:32:26,540 --> 00:32:24,440
mmm-hmm you're aware of that right I

748
00:32:29,740 --> 00:32:26,550
didn't get that impression from the book

749
00:32:34,010 --> 00:32:29,750
right I'm trying to remember what what

750
00:32:35,570 --> 00:32:34,020
what exactly you know when was his

751
00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:35,580
change of heart do you when can you tell

752
00:32:40,820 --> 00:32:38,130
when was that you know I wouldn't put a

753
00:32:43,340 --> 00:32:40,830
time on I know that since we've been

754
00:32:45,890 --> 00:32:43,350
doing the power cast since 2006 when we

755
00:32:47,780 --> 00:32:45,900
have talked to Randall about that case

756
00:32:50,300 --> 00:32:47,790
he's been skeptical so I wouldn't

757
00:32:51,860 --> 00:32:50,310
attempt to frame the extent of his dis

758
00:32:54,470 --> 00:32:51,870
belief you can probably check his blog

759
00:32:56,380 --> 00:32:54,480
to get more information mm-hmm these are

760
00:32:59,480 --> 00:32:56,390
the last few years that we know him

761
00:33:01,310 --> 00:32:59,490
actively because of the show he was not

762
00:33:03,170 --> 00:33:01,320
a believer in Astec and the main

763
00:33:05,570 --> 00:33:03,180
believer currently the guy now who

764
00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:05,580
really supports his Scott Ramsey right

765
00:33:10,700 --> 00:33:08,730
who I quote in the book right now the

766
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:10,710
thing here of course is that in his book

767
00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:12,810
he also tries to resurrect the

768
00:33:21,410 --> 00:33:17,850
reputation of Scully mmm and even jib

769
00:33:23,660 --> 00:33:21,420
our and even Newton he tries to make it

770
00:33:25,250 --> 00:33:23,670
look as if that some of those claims

771
00:33:26,990 --> 00:33:25,260
were unsupported and maybe the

772
00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:27,000
authorities were going after them but

773
00:33:32,510 --> 00:33:29,970
that's a little bit murky so yeah I mean

774
00:33:34,610 --> 00:33:32,520
I to be honest I was I was astonished

775
00:33:36,770 --> 00:33:34,620
from reading about Scott Ramsey's you

776
00:33:38,900 --> 00:33:36,780
know he his attempt to as you sort of

777
00:33:40,940 --> 00:33:38,910
said just for resurrect this thing he's

778
00:33:44,060 --> 00:33:40,950
like oh no you know it really happened

779
00:33:45,220 --> 00:33:44,070
and and again it's like it's crystal

780
00:33:48,820 --> 00:33:45,230
clear I mean it is absolutely

781
00:33:52,430 --> 00:33:48,830
indisputable that that's that you know

782
00:33:55,790 --> 00:33:52,440
it's for 2 con men who made up the story

783
00:33:57,920 --> 00:33:55,800
and but basically his Ramses premise

784
00:34:01,610 --> 00:33:57,930
unless I'm badly misunderstanding it his

785
00:34:03,770 --> 00:34:01,620
sort basically saying well you know yes

786
00:34:06,140 --> 00:34:03,780
yo these guys were liars and yes they

787
00:34:07,820 --> 00:34:06,150
were con man but this was all sort of

788
00:34:09,950 --> 00:34:07,830
you know a cover story for something

789
00:34:12,140 --> 00:34:09,960
that actually happened and he goes into

790
00:34:14,240 --> 00:34:12,150
you know talking about and you sort of

791
00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:14,250
brought this up before he spent months

792
00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:16,530
trying to trying to track down some

793
00:34:22,850 --> 00:34:19,770
weird mysterious sort of conspiracy

794
00:34:25,670 --> 00:34:22,860
theory about some reporter of the

795
00:34:27,980 --> 00:34:25,680
Baltimore Sun Times or which is what he

796
00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:27,990
said section out the name of paper who

797
00:34:33,350 --> 00:34:31,050
had was trying to track down a UFO photo

798
00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:33,360
it's just this bizarre thing and if you

799
00:34:37,010 --> 00:34:35,610
listen to this listen the the interview

800
00:34:39,230 --> 00:34:37,020
in the podcast and they scored in there

801
00:34:41,060 --> 00:34:39,240
he says well you know I'm confused I

802
00:34:43,250 --> 00:34:41,070
have no idea what all this means and and

803
00:34:44,990 --> 00:34:43,260
it's like well look dude if you if you

804
00:34:46,430 --> 00:34:45,000
have all if you've done if you spent so

805
00:34:48,740 --> 00:34:46,440
much time on this months and years of

806
00:34:50,180 --> 00:34:48,750
research and you and you have this this

807
00:34:52,090 --> 00:34:50,190
piece of information that doesn't fit

808
00:34:54,290 --> 00:34:52,100
everything else then maybe it's wrong

809
00:34:56,030 --> 00:34:54,300
maybe you got the information wrong

810
00:34:57,830 --> 00:34:56,040
maybe it's all you know it's it's all

811
00:35:01,520 --> 00:34:57,840
one of many red herrings in this whole

812
00:35:03,470 --> 00:35:01,530
story and so it just astonished me that

813
00:35:05,990 --> 00:35:03,480
this this this writer

814
00:35:08,089 --> 00:35:06,000
oh yeah well you know III can't make

815
00:35:10,490 --> 00:35:08,099
heads or tail this well that's that's a

816
00:35:13,190 --> 00:35:10,500
red flag that the information you're

817
00:35:14,870 --> 00:35:13,200
pursuing is false which is it's not it's

818
00:35:17,240 --> 00:35:14,880
not a discredit to you there's lots of

819
00:35:19,550 --> 00:35:17,250
misinformation both intentional and

820
00:35:21,050 --> 00:35:19,560
accidental throughout you apology you

821
00:35:23,420 --> 00:35:21,060
guys know this and he should know this

822
00:35:23,839 --> 00:35:23,430
and yet you know he sort of tries to do

823
00:35:27,349 --> 00:35:23,849
this

824
00:35:30,050 --> 00:35:27,359
all true in the end it's like dude come

825
00:35:33,500 --> 00:35:30,060
on give it up I kind of look at it as

826
00:35:35,599 --> 00:35:33,510
maybe this is the prosecution the

827
00:35:39,319 --> 00:35:35,609
prosecution's trying to assemble a case

828
00:35:41,859 --> 00:35:39,329
in favor of Aztec and discredit the

829
00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:41,869
defense the people saying no is his a

830
00:35:48,260 --> 00:35:46,170
fake and I guess he goes as far as is

831
00:35:50,540 --> 00:35:48,270
humanly possible now he told me

832
00:35:53,089 --> 00:35:50,550
personally he told us on the show that

833
00:35:54,620 --> 00:35:53,099
he spent over half a million dollars of

834
00:35:56,960 --> 00:35:54,630
his personal money and he's a

835
00:35:59,810 --> 00:35:56,970
businessman I guess he's decently

836
00:36:02,089 --> 00:35:59,820
well-off he spent a lot of this money to

837
00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:02,099
do the research and that's a commendable

838
00:36:07,849 --> 00:36:04,050
effort but after spending all that money

839
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:07,859
if this is all you can come up with as a

840
00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:10,170
lot more unspent in a lot of other UFO

841
00:36:14,930 --> 00:36:13,170
cases maybe there's nothing for you to

842
00:36:16,809 --> 00:36:14,940
find we can go into more of that and get

843
00:36:19,550 --> 00:36:16,819
into some of the other stories in

844
00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:19,560
mysterious New Mexico Ben Radford joins

845
00:36:23,990 --> 00:36:21,690
us a reminder if you want to get a copy

846
00:36:26,180 --> 00:36:24,000
of one a Chris O'Brien's best book

847
00:36:28,819 --> 00:36:26,190
secrets of the mysterious valley the

848
00:36:32,930 --> 00:36:28,829
e-book Edition free here's what you do

849
00:36:33,620 --> 00:36:32,940
go to the power cast com the power cast

850
00:36:36,050 --> 00:36:33,630
com

851
00:36:38,870 --> 00:36:36,060
sign up for our weekly newsletter and

852
00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:38,880
we'll e-mail you a copy of secrets of

853
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:40,770
the mysterious valley with gene and

854
00:36:52,339 --> 00:36:49,849
you're listening to GCN proudly

855
00:36:54,530 --> 00:36:52,349
sponsored by unseen now calm lockdown

856
00:36:59,330 --> 00:36:54,540
your digital life at unseen now calm

857
00:37:01,070 --> 00:36:59,340
this is GC n attack of the rock AIDS has

858
00:37:02,839 --> 00:37:01,080
been well received by critics and

859
00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:02,849
readers alike it's a thrill a minute

860
00:37:08,330 --> 00:37:05,970
story you'll never forget a former US

861
00:37:10,430 --> 00:37:08,340
military intelligence officer is haunted

862
00:37:12,710 --> 00:37:10,440
by intense dreams about a beautiful

863
00:37:15,859 --> 00:37:12,720
woman pleading for his help after a

864
00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:15,869
terrible battle in outer space but the

865
00:37:19,849 --> 00:37:17,970
dreams turn out to be true and thrust

866
00:37:22,940 --> 00:37:19,859
him into a telepathic love affair with a

867
00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:22,950
woman whose faraway planet is intent on

868
00:37:28,099 --> 00:37:25,290
destroying the earth and now the

869
00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:28,109
gripping tale continues in the coming of

870
00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:30,570
the protectors it's the second book of

871
00:37:35,359 --> 00:37:33,210
the rockets trilogy a galaxy spanning

872
00:37:38,420 --> 00:37:35,369
adventure that pits our hapless heroes

873
00:37:40,339 --> 00:37:38,430
against powerful fanatical enemies that

874
00:37:43,190 --> 00:37:40,349
threaten the lives of freedom loving

875
00:37:46,670 --> 00:37:43,200
beings everywhere attack of the rockets

876
00:37:49,370 --> 00:37:46,680
and the coming of the protectors classic

877
00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:49,380
science fiction at its best available

878
00:37:57,170 --> 00:37:52,170
now for more details visit raah codes

879
00:37:59,359 --> 00:37:57,180
calm that's our Ock o IDs dot-com I

880
00:38:00,920 --> 00:37:59,369
didn't believe it neither did I no way

881
00:38:03,109 --> 00:38:00,930
could you professionally remove unwanted

882
00:38:05,150 --> 00:38:03,119
hair pain free hand at home my thoughts

883
00:38:06,890 --> 00:38:05,160
exactly remove my face and body hair

884
00:38:08,690 --> 00:38:06,900
without expensive painful office visits

885
00:38:11,630 --> 00:38:08,700
not possible great minds think alike

886
00:38:12,890 --> 00:38:11,640
until I tried no no pro mm-hmm wait you

887
00:38:15,260 --> 00:38:12,900
tried no no yes

888
00:38:17,420 --> 00:38:15,270
and it works I use it on my face legs

889
00:38:19,430 --> 00:38:17,430
bikini line we're BFFs and you didn't

890
00:38:21,410 --> 00:38:19,440
tell me about no now here this is my new

891
00:38:23,240 --> 00:38:21,420
no no Pro the most powerful no no made

892
00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:23,250
custom treatment levels less hair and

893
00:38:27,650 --> 00:38:25,410
less time perfect for any skin type try

894
00:38:30,620 --> 00:38:27,660
it no hair no pain no time consuming

895
00:38:32,720 --> 00:38:30,630
expensive office visits no no and no no

896
00:38:34,550 --> 00:38:32,730
for a limited time you can try no no Pro

897
00:38:36,290 --> 00:38:34,560
risk-free you'll also get the facial kit

898
00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:36,300
at a travel case get weeks of long

899
00:38:41,900 --> 00:38:38,490
lasting results I'm getting an O now

900
00:38:49,339 --> 00:38:41,910
great minds do think alike try no no

901
00:38:51,470 --> 00:38:49,349
prole risk-free by calling 897-8256

902
00:38:54,050 --> 00:38:51,480
that's eight hundred nine fifty two

903
00:38:58,720 --> 00:38:54,060
fifty seven sixty eight hundred ninety

904
00:39:05,750 --> 00:39:02,270
I'm Caze whirling from chaos CEO radio

905
00:39:09,050 --> 00:39:05,760
in Santa Cruz I'm 93 years old and I'm a

906
00:39:11,510 --> 00:39:09,060
big fan of Alex Jones because he has the

907
00:39:14,780 --> 00:39:11,520
courage to speak his mind more than just

908
00:39:16,940 --> 00:39:14,790
about anyone I know Alex is just as

909
00:39:19,790 --> 00:39:16,950
bothered as I am about all the

910
00:39:22,220 --> 00:39:19,800
advertising you hear for toxic

911
00:39:25,100 --> 00:39:22,230
prescription drugs that make you sicker

912
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:25,110
not healthy I'd prefer to give my body

913
00:39:31,730 --> 00:39:28,410
all 90 essential nutrients it needs for

914
00:39:34,370 --> 00:39:31,740
life to prevent disease not compounded

915
00:39:38,330 --> 00:39:34,380
my favorite complete supplement is

916
00:39:41,180 --> 00:39:38,340
beyond tangy tangerine from youngevity

917
00:39:42,890 --> 00:39:41,190
which I take every day along with EF

918
00:39:46,670 --> 00:39:42,900
a-plus and beyond

919
00:39:50,270 --> 00:39:46,680
osteo FX I recommend you go online to

920
00:39:52,580 --> 00:39:50,280
Infowars team.com to purchase these

921
00:39:55,430 --> 00:39:52,590
products and make them part of your

922
00:39:59,660 --> 00:39:55,440
daily regimen to get healthy and live

923
00:40:02,450 --> 00:39:59,670
longer info wars team comm what good is

924
00:40:04,100 --> 00:40:02,460
a big berkey water filter we get that

925
00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:04,110
question a lot here at big berkey water

926
00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:06,690
filters calm and in a word the answer is

927
00:40:11,540 --> 00:40:08,850
protection protection from water main

928
00:40:13,310 --> 00:40:11,550
breaks ecoli contamination environmental

929
00:40:16,010 --> 00:40:13,320
chemical spills pesticide runoff

930
00:40:17,990 --> 00:40:16,020
chlorine taste and smell and all forms

931
00:40:19,820 --> 00:40:18,000
of fluoride plus big berkey water

932
00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:19,830
filters are the original gravity water

933
00:40:24,050 --> 00:40:21,690
filter system and most trusted on the

934
00:40:26,900 --> 00:40:24,060
market for a reason tested by multiple

935
00:40:28,190 --> 00:40:26,910
independent NSF EPA certified labs they

936
00:40:30,380 --> 00:40:28,200
are the gold standard in water

937
00:40:32,210 --> 00:40:30,390
purification and only one point seven

938
00:40:34,340 --> 00:40:32,220
cents a gallon a single set of filters

939
00:40:37,220 --> 00:40:34,350
can last for five to ten years that

940
00:40:38,810 --> 00:40:37,230
means big savings big berkey the one

941
00:40:41,060 --> 00:40:38,820
that's powerful enough to purify

942
00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:41,070
stagnant pond water get a big berkey

943
00:40:45,590 --> 00:40:43,290
today at big berkey water filters calm

944
00:40:47,810 --> 00:40:45,600
GCN listeners receive five percent off

945
00:40:51,170 --> 00:40:47,820
all ceramic filter systems visit our

946
00:40:55,460 --> 00:40:51,180
website or call 187 $7.99 per key that's

947
00:41:00,440 --> 00:40:55,470
877 99 ber k ey big berkey water filters

948
00:41:06,870 --> 00:41:03,990
hi this is Don Ecker and you are tuned

949
00:41:09,269 --> 00:41:06,880
in to the para cast let me tell you what

950
00:41:12,779 --> 00:41:09,279
you're gonna hear stuff here that you

951
00:41:15,809 --> 00:41:12,789
probably won't hear anywhere else hear

952
00:41:17,730 --> 00:41:15,819
that George Noory okay we've got Ben

953
00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:17,740
Radford joining us with Jean and Chris

954
00:41:23,480 --> 00:41:20,650
and the power cast before we leave aztec

955
00:41:25,769 --> 00:41:23,490
away we send it back to wherever it is

956
00:41:28,109 --> 00:41:25,779
just one other point I want to ask you

957
00:41:30,720 --> 00:41:28,119
here you said that

958
00:41:33,509 --> 00:41:30,730
Scully's reputation was really tainted

959
00:41:39,059 --> 00:41:33,519
by this how kind of gossip columnist

960
00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:39,069
reputation be tainted by anything no no

961
00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:41,410
it's a fair question I mean you know the

962
00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:44,410
fact is that as I understand and I'm not

963
00:41:49,049 --> 00:41:46,690
a historian on Frank Scully but as I

964
00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:49,059
from the research that I've done is that

965
00:41:52,829 --> 00:41:50,890
even though he was a gossip columnist

966
00:41:55,470 --> 00:41:52,839
and that was sort of again as we said

967
00:41:58,500 --> 00:41:55,480
that was his beat he went out on a limb

968
00:42:00,569 --> 00:41:58,510
with behind the flying saucers he was he

969
00:42:02,430 --> 00:42:00,579
was basically saying yeah okay all this

970
00:42:04,200 --> 00:42:02,440
stuff I was doing before it's all rumor

971
00:42:06,059 --> 00:42:04,210
and gossip and you know celebrity stuff

972
00:42:08,430 --> 00:42:06,069
blah blah and by the way let's not

973
00:42:10,410 --> 00:42:08,440
forget that that much of the stuff he

974
00:42:12,089 --> 00:42:10,420
reported was true

975
00:42:14,339 --> 00:42:12,099
you know Sinatra's love life this and

976
00:42:16,230 --> 00:42:14,349
that it's all rumor and gossip and you

977
00:42:18,059 --> 00:42:16,240
know stuff that's that's inconsequential

978
00:42:20,640 --> 00:42:18,069
but that doesn't make it not true it's

979
00:42:22,559 --> 00:42:20,650
the same way today rumors about you know

980
00:42:24,539 --> 00:42:22,569
oh yeah the first photos of you know

981
00:42:27,299 --> 00:42:24,549
Angelina Jolie's baby or you know what

982
00:42:29,190 --> 00:42:27,309
Mariah was dumped you know this is all

983
00:42:31,259 --> 00:42:29,200
sort of superficial inconsequential

984
00:42:33,630 --> 00:42:31,269
gossip but that doesn't make it not true

985
00:42:35,700 --> 00:42:33,640
Wow first now the big controversy this

986
00:42:37,380 --> 00:42:35,710
week is the alleged nude photos of

987
00:42:40,170 --> 00:42:37,390
Jennifer Lawrence and some other people

988
00:42:43,650 --> 00:42:40,180
and the only response I have to that

989
00:42:45,299 --> 00:42:43,660
before we go on is really are you that

990
00:42:47,130 --> 00:42:45,309
stupid that you're gonna take pictures

991
00:42:48,870 --> 00:42:47,140
like that it doesn't matter where you

992
00:42:50,549 --> 00:42:48,880
upload them you leave them on your phone

993
00:42:53,819 --> 00:42:50,559
it's not just an iPhone it's Android

994
00:42:55,650 --> 00:42:53,829
phones and everything well you're gonna

995
00:43:01,890 --> 00:42:55,660
send it up to the cloud whether it's

996
00:43:03,539 --> 00:43:01,900
Google or Apple or my scarlet johansson

997
00:43:05,099 --> 00:43:03,549
did it a few years ago so I mean you

998
00:43:07,289 --> 00:43:05,109
bring you raise a good question but my

999
00:43:09,450 --> 00:43:07,299
my understanding is that with with

1000
00:43:10,950 --> 00:43:09,460
behind the Flying Saucer Scully was was

1001
00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:10,960
essentially trying to stake his

1002
00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:11,770
credibility

1003
00:43:15,660 --> 00:43:14,290
journalist I think he was tired of I

1004
00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:15,670
mean he certainly made a good living and

1005
00:43:19,530 --> 00:43:17,410
he was well known in those circles as

1006
00:43:22,200 --> 00:43:19,540
you know celebrity rumor and gossip from

1007
00:43:23,940 --> 00:43:22,210
from that time which is fine but he was

1008
00:43:25,710 --> 00:43:23,950
totally taken in by these guys like look

1009
00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:25,720
you know I'm gonna break this story wide

1010
00:43:29,340 --> 00:43:27,970
open because as as you yourself said he

1011
00:43:30,870 --> 00:43:29,350
apparently believe this he you know I do

1012
00:43:32,310 --> 00:43:30,880
I have no reason to think that Scully

1013
00:43:33,180 --> 00:43:32,320
was in on this I think he believed this

1014
00:43:35,820 --> 00:43:33,190
from start to finish

1015
00:43:37,470 --> 00:43:35,830
and if you take that disa premise and he

1016
00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:37,480
really believes that oh my god you know

1017
00:43:42,420 --> 00:43:39,370
there really was this crash these guys

1018
00:43:45,060 --> 00:43:42,430
seem legitimate this one this one guy's

1019
00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:45,070
got more degrees than the thermometer as

1020
00:43:49,950 --> 00:43:47,290
one as he said and probably worth no

1021
00:43:51,810 --> 00:43:49,960
more than thermometer exactly then then

1022
00:43:54,870 --> 00:43:51,820
then you know you can see why he would

1023
00:43:57,180 --> 00:43:54,880
want to use that book to sort of stake

1024
00:43:59,220 --> 00:43:57,190
out more credibility and so that's why I

1025
00:44:00,990 --> 00:43:59,230
think in the end his credibility was

1026
00:44:03,450 --> 00:44:01,000
tarnished because he had gone out on a

1027
00:44:05,970 --> 00:44:03,460
limb based on these these two con men

1028
00:44:09,150 --> 00:44:05,980
and put his name on it and he was fooled

1029
00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:09,160
and so we consign Aztec to what the

1030
00:44:14,850 --> 00:44:11,770
dustbin of history well you know the

1031
00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:14,860
thing about and as you guys know I mean

1032
00:44:18,330 --> 00:44:16,450
one of the fascinating parts about the

1033
00:44:19,980 --> 00:44:18,340
this these you know paranormal and

1034
00:44:21,780 --> 00:44:19,990
unexplained things is there's rubber

1035
00:44:23,190 --> 00:44:21,790
duck syndrome where it keeps coming up

1036
00:44:25,740 --> 00:44:23,200
it doesn't matter same thing with you

1037
00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:25,750
the ramita triangle the mere triangle is

1038
00:44:30,690 --> 00:44:28,090
essentially debunked in the mid-70s and

1039
00:44:32,790 --> 00:44:30,700
to this day they're still documentaries

1040
00:44:34,740 --> 00:44:32,800
on it they're still occasional you know

1041
00:44:36,720 --> 00:44:34,750
magazine articles books and this and

1042
00:44:38,580 --> 00:44:36,730
that so it's never gonna go away that

1043
00:44:40,890 --> 00:44:38,590
but what I think is most is really

1044
00:44:43,350 --> 00:44:40,900
really fascinating about the the Aztec

1045
00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:43,360
UFO crash is the whole stories the whole

1046
00:44:46,650 --> 00:44:45,010
structure it's not just like ooh this

1047
00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:46,660
was a con it's like it not only was a

1048
00:44:51,150 --> 00:44:49,210
con it was actually the first as far as

1049
00:44:53,700 --> 00:44:51,160
I know it was actually the first case

1050
00:44:56,160 --> 00:44:53,710
where anybody had claimed that the US

1051
00:44:58,410 --> 00:44:56,170
government had retrieved an intact

1052
00:45:01,380 --> 00:44:58,420
flying saucer complete with alien bodies

1053
00:45:02,720 --> 00:45:01,390
and hidden it so it's it's remarkable I

1054
00:45:05,700 --> 00:45:02,730
mean it turned out to be a lie of course

1055
00:45:09,510 --> 00:45:05,710
but it's remarkable for its early date

1056
00:45:11,360 --> 00:45:09,520
1948 and and that fact alone well at

1057
00:45:15,780 --> 00:45:11,370
least one thing we know is that

1058
00:45:18,210 --> 00:45:15,790
obviously stories like that after Aztec

1059
00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:18,220
didn't go anywhere until Roswell was

1060
00:45:22,890 --> 00:45:20,770
resurrected 20-some odd years later in

1061
00:45:24,539 --> 00:45:22,900
any case now to the dustbin of history

1062
00:45:27,299 --> 00:45:24,549
is ask tech I know Scott

1063
00:45:28,890 --> 00:45:27,309
MZ who's a really nice guy is not going

1064
00:45:31,289 --> 00:45:28,900
to like me saying that but Chris and I

1065
00:45:33,479 --> 00:45:31,299
agree this is not the case it should

1066
00:45:35,219 --> 00:45:33,489
rise and fall on now maybe you and I

1067
00:45:38,279 --> 00:45:35,229
would disagree about the worth of

1068
00:45:39,569 --> 00:45:38,289
Roswell but you know I'm not a full-on

1069
00:45:42,089 --> 00:45:39,579
believer in that either

1070
00:45:43,019 --> 00:45:42,099
okay let's explore more of mysterious

1071
00:45:46,679 --> 00:45:43,029
New Mexico

1072
00:45:50,069 --> 00:45:46,689
it doesn't involve crash UFOs okay and

1073
00:45:52,140 --> 00:45:50,079
I'm gonna bring in our expert for such

1074
00:45:54,239 --> 00:45:52,150
matters mr. Chris O'Brien who will

1075
00:45:56,090 --> 00:45:54,249
follow through Chris yeah the jell-o

1076
00:45:59,120 --> 00:45:56,100
slurp and true believer

1077
00:46:02,069 --> 00:45:59,130
[Music]

1078
00:46:04,919 --> 00:46:02,079
yeah I'm beyond kool-aid drinking Ben

1079
00:46:08,359 --> 00:46:04,929
now I'm a jello slurper wow that's

1080
00:46:12,599 --> 00:46:10,949
especially since the original Jonestown

1081
00:46:16,499 --> 00:46:12,609
Massacre was flavor aid not kool-aid

1082
00:46:18,359 --> 00:46:16,509
right yep no there's so many kool-aid

1083
00:46:20,999 --> 00:46:18,369
drinkers out there we tried it we try to

1084
00:46:22,319 --> 00:46:21,009
be all things for all people that's good

1085
00:46:25,890 --> 00:46:22,329
you know it's good that you're out there

1086
00:46:27,539 --> 00:46:25,900
yeah well did they cover your book my my

1087
00:46:30,359 --> 00:46:27,549
friend Susan took one look at it in

1088
00:46:32,910 --> 00:46:30,369
street for those of you that haven't

1089
00:46:36,209 --> 00:46:32,920
seen the cover it's a dead ghoulish

1090
00:46:38,459 --> 00:46:36,219
woman holding a you know sleeping baby

1091
00:46:40,559 --> 00:46:38,469
in her arms and the woman has several

1092
00:46:42,569 --> 00:46:40,569
dozen big spiders coming out of her

1093
00:46:45,229 --> 00:46:42,579
mouth and spreading out around her and

1094
00:46:48,779 --> 00:46:45,239
she she looks like something out of

1095
00:46:51,449 --> 00:46:48,789
walking dead or something it is a

1096
00:46:54,269 --> 00:46:51,459
remarkably creepy cover the so far the

1097
00:46:59,419 --> 00:46:54,279
the reaction I've got is about 70% love

1098
00:47:03,929 --> 00:47:02,039
certain especially coming out of New

1099
00:47:05,729 --> 00:47:03,939
Mexico press I'm surprised that they

1100
00:47:07,469 --> 00:47:05,739
would supply it with a cover like that

1101
00:47:09,269 --> 00:47:07,479
well it's going on the assumption you

1102
00:47:11,219 --> 00:47:09,279
had nothing to do with it which I I'm

1103
00:47:13,019 --> 00:47:11,229
pretty sure you didn't well actually I

1104
00:47:14,789 --> 00:47:13,029
had something to do with it I'll tell

1105
00:47:16,919 --> 00:47:14,799
you a quick story on just cuz might find

1106
00:47:20,549 --> 00:47:16,929
interesting is that I had I was actually

1107
00:47:22,919 --> 00:47:20,559
at a horror and paranormal conference in

1108
00:47:26,880 --> 00:47:22,929
Lexington Kentucky about five or six

1109
00:47:28,709 --> 00:47:26,890
years ago and I was there I was giving a

1110
00:47:30,719 --> 00:47:28,719
talk there and I also had a booth I had

1111
00:47:31,979 --> 00:47:30,729
a board game called playing gods which

1112
00:47:35,640 --> 00:47:31,989
some of you may or may not know about

1113
00:47:36,689 --> 00:47:35,650
and I was you know as conferences are

1114
00:47:37,800 --> 00:47:36,699
you know there are times when there's

1115
00:47:39,090 --> 00:47:37,810
nobody there as you're just

1116
00:47:41,220 --> 00:47:39,100
sitting there unit within your thumbs

1117
00:47:43,470 --> 00:47:41,230
and say I took a break and stretched and

1118
00:47:45,870 --> 00:47:43,480
walked around and I I came across a

1119
00:47:50,100 --> 00:47:45,880
booth from horror photographer Josh ha

1120
00:47:52,080 --> 00:47:50,110
find HOF fi ne and I met him and I saw

1121
00:47:54,050 --> 00:47:52,090
some seen some of his prints and they

1122
00:47:57,060 --> 00:47:54,060
were really sort of creepy interesting

1123
00:47:58,770 --> 00:47:57,070
and he did the cover there and he does

1124
00:48:00,420 --> 00:47:58,780
all sorts of sort of zombie ones and

1125
00:48:03,060 --> 00:48:00,430
it's what's interesting that photography

1126
00:48:08,760 --> 00:48:03,070
is it's all practical he doesn't use CGI

1127
00:48:10,890 --> 00:48:08,770
it's all staged this one yeah and the

1128
00:48:13,020 --> 00:48:10,900
cardinal rule is in Hollywood never work

1129
00:48:14,700 --> 00:48:13,030
with animals or children right here you

1130
00:48:16,740 --> 00:48:14,710
got both old ghouls I don't know about

1131
00:48:19,260 --> 00:48:16,750
ghouls the undead and we got all three

1132
00:48:20,640 --> 00:48:19,270
of those sometimes yeah well you know

1133
00:48:22,620 --> 00:48:20,650
you just get the sedatives in the

1134
00:48:23,910 --> 00:48:22,630
kool-aid and you're fine but I'd met him

1135
00:48:25,500 --> 00:48:23,920
and I talked to him and I actually

1136
00:48:28,320 --> 00:48:25,510
bought a couple of his prints and I've

1137
00:48:29,730 --> 00:48:28,330
got him on my walls and so I stayed in

1138
00:48:32,490 --> 00:48:29,740
touch with him every now and then buy a

1139
00:48:34,380 --> 00:48:32,500
printer or a friend and then when when I

1140
00:48:36,600 --> 00:48:34,390
was finishing mysterious New Mexico

1141
00:48:40,110 --> 00:48:36,610
about row about a year ago now I was

1142
00:48:43,770 --> 00:48:40,120
looking for art for the the chapter on

1143
00:48:45,870 --> 00:48:43,780
La Llorona the whaling woman who kills

1144
00:48:48,900 --> 00:48:45,880
her children and is supposedly said to

1145
00:48:50,100 --> 00:48:48,910
be haunting ditches and waterways around

1146
00:48:52,770 --> 00:48:50,110
the world and particularly in Latin

1147
00:48:54,540 --> 00:48:52,780
America and so I have a fascinating at

1148
00:48:56,640 --> 00:48:54,550
least fascinating to me chapter on later

1149
00:48:58,200 --> 00:48:56,650
on and the folklore and all the actual

1150
00:49:00,210 --> 00:48:58,210
sightings including get into urban

1151
00:49:01,980 --> 00:49:00,220
legends and all this it was kind of a

1152
00:49:03,900 --> 00:49:01,990
difficult thing to illustrate because

1153
00:49:05,340 --> 00:49:03,910
you know no one's ever photographed her

1154
00:49:07,710 --> 00:49:05,350
and it's sort of a you know again an

1155
00:49:09,540 --> 00:49:07,720
urban legend folkloric figure and I

1156
00:49:11,850 --> 00:49:09,550
realized that this photograph that's on

1157
00:49:13,680 --> 00:49:11,860
the cover it's called swarm it covers a

1158
00:49:15,720 --> 00:49:13,690
lot of a lot of the elements of the

1159
00:49:18,030 --> 00:49:15,730
lighter on us so as far as I know it

1160
00:49:19,590 --> 00:49:18,040
wasn't intended to be a you know a

1161
00:49:21,450 --> 00:49:19,600
depiction of La Llorona but it certainly

1162
00:49:23,880 --> 00:49:21,460
is pretty close and then it would work

1163
00:49:25,110 --> 00:49:23,890
for that so I I contacted him and I said

1164
00:49:26,490 --> 00:49:25,120
hey you know I'm doing this book I met

1165
00:49:28,890 --> 00:49:26,500
you before he's like yeah fine whatever

1166
00:49:31,710 --> 00:49:28,900
so that photograph is actually on the

1167
00:49:33,240 --> 00:49:31,720
inside for it so it opens the chapter in

1168
00:49:34,560 --> 00:49:33,250
light aronia and so I was like okay cool

1169
00:49:37,470 --> 00:49:34,570
so I got the information for that and

1170
00:49:39,750 --> 00:49:37,480
then about two months later I got an

1171
00:49:41,490 --> 00:49:39,760
email from the editor of the book and

1172
00:49:44,460 --> 00:49:41,500
she's like yeah what do you think of our

1173
00:49:46,320 --> 00:49:44,470
cover and I looked at it I said that's a

1174
00:49:48,360 --> 00:49:46,330
creepy cover but I don't have permission

1175
00:49:50,520 --> 00:49:48,370
for that I only got permission to do the

1176
00:49:51,420 --> 00:49:50,530
inside to have the image on the inside

1177
00:49:53,460 --> 00:49:51,430
they Oh

1178
00:49:56,190 --> 00:49:53,470
to him he's fine you know he's happy

1179
00:50:01,260 --> 00:49:56,200
with it we're good like all right don't

1180
00:50:04,140 --> 00:50:01,270
you like it don't you yeah yeah it's

1181
00:50:05,190 --> 00:50:04,150
weird you know my concern was and I

1182
00:50:07,410 --> 00:50:05,200
don't I don't mean this in a negative

1183
00:50:09,630 --> 00:50:07,420
way but I was like well you know that

1184
00:50:11,069 --> 00:50:09,640
the title of the book is vertical it

1185
00:50:12,870 --> 00:50:11,079
makes it harder to read because you know

1186
00:50:14,370 --> 00:50:12,880
most both book titles are horizontal

1187
00:50:16,559 --> 00:50:14,380
that's in this particular case because

1188
00:50:18,150 --> 00:50:16,569
the layout of the the book cover it says

1189
00:50:19,819 --> 00:50:18,160
mysteriously Mexico and then I guess my

1190
00:50:22,829 --> 00:50:19,829
name is horizontal and that's important

1191
00:50:24,270 --> 00:50:22,839
but the rest of it is vertical and and I

1192
00:50:26,579 --> 00:50:24,280
talked that or he's like well you know

1193
00:50:28,770 --> 00:50:26,589
we don't think that's a big deal because

1194
00:50:34,109 --> 00:50:28,780
you know really the the function of a

1195
00:50:36,930 --> 00:50:34,119
cover is to catch your eye and so yeah

1196
00:50:39,240 --> 00:50:36,940
for all you mothers out there with

1197
00:50:41,309 --> 00:50:39,250
newborns I just hope you have better

1198
00:50:44,370 --> 00:50:41,319
hair day and and you don't like spiders

1199
00:50:46,500 --> 00:50:44,380
like this this model does oh my god it's

1200
00:50:48,569 --> 00:50:46,510
creepy you brought up la Llorona Ben

1201
00:50:51,270 --> 00:50:48,579
that's that's a maybe we should dovetail

1202
00:50:54,000 --> 00:50:51,280
into talking about La Llorona it's one

1203
00:50:56,730 --> 00:50:54,010
of the few you know true urban legends

1204
00:50:58,170 --> 00:50:56,740
that I received reports with people

1205
00:51:00,150 --> 00:50:58,180
calling up to report lawyer oh no

1206
00:51:02,900 --> 00:51:00,160
interests and this happened a number of

1207
00:51:05,309 --> 00:51:02,910
times in the San Luis Valley in Colorado

1208
00:51:09,930 --> 00:51:05,319
because you know the first time that

1209
00:51:12,120 --> 00:51:09,940
they said it I I thought what la who the

1210
00:51:13,920 --> 00:51:12,130
weeping woman and it's like well I'm

1211
00:51:15,720 --> 00:51:13,930
gonna check up on that and I did I did

1212
00:51:18,539 --> 00:51:15,730
quite a bit of research into this and as

1213
00:51:19,980 --> 00:51:18,549
you have so when we get back Ben let's

1214
00:51:22,200 --> 00:51:19,990
go ahead and we'll talk about La Llorona

1215
00:51:24,329 --> 00:51:22,210
you're listening to the podcast with

1216
00:51:28,160 --> 00:51:24,339
Christopher O'Brien and Jim Steinberg

1217
00:51:37,330 --> 00:51:28,170
you're in the pair Rock

1218
00:51:43,480 --> 00:51:40,960
great minds think alike the network for

1219
00:51:48,640 --> 00:51:43,490
the independent finding the genesis

1220
00:51:50,980 --> 00:51:48,650
communications network G C n next to

1221
00:51:53,020 --> 00:51:50,990
water and food you need a safe storable

1222
00:51:56,380 --> 00:51:53,030
fuel supply for your preparedness needs

1223
00:51:58,480 --> 00:51:56,390
spare fuel is the answer spare fuel can

1224
00:52:00,940 --> 00:51:58,490
be used in any gas powered vehicle or

1225
00:52:03,820 --> 00:52:00,950
generator spare fuel is perfect for any

1226
00:52:06,280 --> 00:52:03,830
unforeseen out of gas emergencies unlike

1227
00:52:08,410 --> 00:52:06,290
gasoline spare fuel is safe to store

1228
00:52:11,290 --> 00:52:08,420
with your other supplies and it can be

1229
00:52:14,260 --> 00:52:11,300
stored for many years go to get spare

1230
00:52:18,400 --> 00:52:14,270
fuel calm for a special pricing that's

1231
00:52:20,500 --> 00:52:18,410
get spare fuel table we the people grow

1232
00:52:22,000 --> 00:52:20,510
cotton wheat fabric engraving can bed

1233
00:52:23,560 --> 00:52:22,010
strips and fibers to protect from

1234
00:52:25,330 --> 00:52:23,570
counterfeit and carting to a private

1235
00:52:27,100 --> 00:52:25,340
bank having it led back at interest

1236
00:52:28,990 --> 00:52:27,110
forcing taxes to service debt this

1237
00:52:30,430 --> 00:52:29,000
capitalism or was Jefferson correct when

1238
00:52:32,080 --> 00:52:30,440
stating a central bank issuing the

1239
00:52:33,190 --> 00:52:32,090
public currency is a greater menace to

1240
00:52:34,930 --> 00:52:33,200
the liberties of the people than a

1241
00:52:36,370 --> 00:52:34,940
standing army hi Ted Anderson I'm

1242
00:52:38,200 --> 00:52:36,380
placing a free silver dollar in a book

1243
00:52:41,710 --> 00:52:38,210
that explains our monetary system call

1244
00:52:44,920 --> 00:52:41,720
for your copy 800 686 to 237 it's time

1245
00:52:50,800 --> 00:52:44,930
to understand the system call 866 to 237

1246
00:52:52,660 --> 00:52:50,810
that's 800 686 to 237 on Facebook on the

1247
00:52:55,300 --> 00:52:52,670
news and in conversations with friends

1248
00:52:57,340 --> 00:52:55,310
we're bombarded every day with advice on

1249
00:53:00,010 --> 00:52:57,350
how to be healthier from gluten-free and

1250
00:53:01,960 --> 00:53:00,020
non-gmo diets to how much exercise and

1251
00:53:04,180 --> 00:53:01,970
sleep the body needs but how much have

1252
00:53:06,640 --> 00:53:04,190
you heard about alkalizing the body Alka

1253
00:53:08,680 --> 00:53:06,650
vision plasma pH drops are a holistic

1254
00:53:10,750 --> 00:53:08,690
and natural way to get your body's ph

1255
00:53:12,580 --> 00:53:10,760
levels back in balance just a few drops

1256
00:53:14,830 --> 00:53:12,590
in water will help your body rid itself

1257
00:53:16,600 --> 00:53:14,840
of harmful waste and even the healthiest

1258
00:53:18,880 --> 00:53:16,610
of diets can be complemented with your

1259
00:53:20,860 --> 00:53:18,890
daily use of alcove is and plasma pH

1260
00:53:23,680 --> 00:53:20,870
drops who isn't looking for more vibrant

1261
00:53:26,590 --> 00:53:23,690
vigor and energy now buy two bottles of

1262
00:53:29,110 --> 00:53:26,600
alkaviva pH drops and get $10 off your

1263
00:53:31,150 --> 00:53:29,120
order visit Alka vision comm or call

1264
00:53:34,030 --> 00:53:31,160
eight hundred five point eight seven six

1265
00:53:36,070 --> 00:53:34,040
one five Alka vision plasma pH drops are

1266
00:53:37,260 --> 00:53:36,080
packed with a powerful combination of

1267
00:53:39,330 --> 00:53:37,270
the most alkaline

1268
00:53:41,700 --> 00:53:39,340
and compounds open the door to greater

1269
00:53:43,980 --> 00:53:41,710
health vitality and zest for life

1270
00:53:45,510 --> 00:53:43,990
alkalize your body supercharge your

1271
00:53:48,330 --> 00:53:45,520
health call eight hundred five hundred

1272
00:53:55,580 --> 00:53:48,340
six one five or head to alcove isn't

1273
00:54:02,850 --> 00:53:59,010
welcome back to to the para cast the

1274
00:54:11,640 --> 00:54:02,860
gold standard of paranormal radio and

1275
00:54:13,470 --> 00:54:11,650
now here's Jane Steinberg we're back

1276
00:54:15,660 --> 00:54:13,480
we've been Radford the author of

1277
00:54:18,210 --> 00:54:15,670
mysterious New Mexico Jean Steinberg

1278
00:54:21,600 --> 00:54:18,220
just led us out with his Brad Steiger

1279
00:54:23,610 --> 00:54:21,610
sounding parrot cast that was pretty

1280
00:54:25,320 --> 00:54:23,620
frightening in and of itself there Jean

1281
00:54:27,990 --> 00:54:25,330
I got should wait before we went to

1282
00:54:29,460 --> 00:54:28,000
break I had too much boy wrote a thing

1283
00:54:31,770 --> 00:54:29,470
like that that's what happened I drank

1284
00:54:33,050 --> 00:54:31,780
some kool-aid and then the devil made me

1285
00:54:35,550 --> 00:54:33,060
do it

1286
00:54:38,010 --> 00:54:35,560
well I aronia probably made you do that

1287
00:54:40,050 --> 00:54:38,020
one Ben let's let's give our listeners

1288
00:54:43,350 --> 00:54:40,060
who aren't up to speed on this

1289
00:54:45,540 --> 00:54:43,360
particular urban legend and you can

1290
00:54:48,420 --> 00:54:45,550
almost literally by definition call La

1291
00:54:50,100 --> 00:54:48,430
Llorona an urban legend sure let's let's

1292
00:54:52,020 --> 00:54:50,110
look at this a little bit in depth and

1293
00:54:53,610 --> 00:54:52,030
then kick it around a little bit yeah I

1294
00:54:55,380 --> 00:54:53,620
mean lion Drona was it was a

1295
00:54:58,350 --> 00:54:55,390
particularly interesting chapter for me

1296
00:55:00,420 --> 00:54:58,360
partly because you know one of the

1297
00:55:02,790 --> 00:55:00,430
things that I do in my my research is

1298
00:55:05,340 --> 00:55:02,800
I'm big on looking into the folklore of

1299
00:55:07,500 --> 00:55:05,350
things and I've researched folklore in

1300
00:55:09,000 --> 00:55:07,510
fact I'm a couple years ago I'm a member

1301
00:55:10,310 --> 00:55:09,010
of the American folklore society and a

1302
00:55:12,900 --> 00:55:10,320
couple years back I gave a talk on

1303
00:55:15,180 --> 00:55:12,910
folklore of the chupacabra at their

1304
00:55:17,430 --> 00:55:15,190
conference and in fact later this year

1305
00:55:19,260 --> 00:55:17,440
in November in Santa Fe I here in New

1306
00:55:21,450 --> 00:55:19,270
Mexico they're having another conference

1307
00:55:23,940 --> 00:55:21,460
and I'm giving a presentation on the

1308
00:55:25,320 --> 00:55:23,950
folklore of organ theft urban legends

1309
00:55:27,330 --> 00:55:25,330
yeah the stories that you know your your

1310
00:55:29,760 --> 00:55:27,340
kidneys gone call 9-1-1 and the idea

1311
00:55:32,100 --> 00:55:29,770
that your kidneys been sold and stolen

1312
00:55:34,200 --> 00:55:32,110
on this so I'm always fascinated by the

1313
00:55:35,970 --> 00:55:34,210
folklore I it's important to me to not

1314
00:55:37,890 --> 00:55:35,980
stop at the folklore which is what a lot

1315
00:55:40,950 --> 00:55:37,900
of ghost hunters and amateurs do is they

1316
00:55:43,050 --> 00:55:40,960
say oh whoa oh yeah we found out that

1317
00:55:45,810 --> 00:55:43,060
there was you know a gunfighter named

1318
00:55:47,250 --> 00:55:45,820
Henry shot here in 1890 and Wow if

1319
00:55:49,080 --> 00:55:47,260
there's a if there's a ghost here it

1320
00:55:51,000 --> 00:55:49,090
must be Henry that's not doing folklore

1321
00:55:53,040 --> 00:55:51,010
that's not how that worked if there's a

1322
00:55:54,420 --> 00:55:53,050
specific ghost claim then you can you

1323
00:55:56,940 --> 00:55:54,430
may or may not be able to tie in some

1324
00:55:59,010 --> 00:55:56,950
actual historical figure but simply sort

1325
00:56:00,780 --> 00:55:59,020
of connecting the two isn't is not good

1326
00:56:03,390 --> 00:56:00,790
research that's not good folklore but

1327
00:56:05,310 --> 00:56:03,400
with La Llorona again I I had heard

1328
00:56:06,810 --> 00:56:05,320
stories later on a growing up here in

1329
00:56:08,370 --> 00:56:06,820
New Mexico I was

1330
00:56:09,560 --> 00:56:08,380
actually born in New York but I spent

1331
00:56:12,030 --> 00:56:09,570
most of my life in here in New Mexico

1332
00:56:13,830 --> 00:56:12,040
and even though I don't come from a

1333
00:56:15,780 --> 00:56:13,840
Hispanic family many of my friends were

1334
00:56:18,120 --> 00:56:15,790
Hispanic and growing up in the small

1335
00:56:20,580 --> 00:56:18,130
town of Corrales near the Rio Grande

1336
00:56:23,760 --> 00:56:20,590
River outside Albuquerque I would hear

1337
00:56:25,440 --> 00:56:23,770
stories of later ona and in fact the

1338
00:56:28,920 --> 00:56:25,450
local government the Albuquerque city

1339
00:56:32,370 --> 00:56:28,930
government would use the image of later

1340
00:56:33,930 --> 00:56:32,380
ona to scare kids there was a public

1341
00:56:36,360 --> 00:56:33,940
service campaign called ditches or

1342
00:56:39,180 --> 00:56:36,370
deadly stay away in the image it had a

1343
00:56:42,270 --> 00:56:39,190
had a sort of menacing cartoonish but

1344
00:56:44,310 --> 00:56:42,280
menacing witch who was you know staring

1345
00:56:46,440 --> 00:56:44,320
at you saying you know don't go near the

1346
00:56:48,780 --> 00:56:46,450
water because you'll you'll die and the

1347
00:56:50,160 --> 00:56:48,790
the implicit message was it's clearly

1348
00:56:52,320 --> 00:56:50,170
like a Rona I mean that that's that's

1349
00:56:54,300 --> 00:56:52,330
the image they were using and they were

1350
00:56:56,790 --> 00:56:54,310
essentially using in sort of co-opting

1351
00:56:59,010 --> 00:56:56,800
interesting folklore of the region in

1352
00:57:01,500 --> 00:56:59,020
order to to tell people to you know it's

1353
00:57:03,300 --> 00:57:01,510
particularly kids to stay away from from

1354
00:57:05,220 --> 00:57:03,310
from ditches drainage ditches because of

1355
00:57:06,390 --> 00:57:05,230
for example flash flood warnings stay

1356
00:57:07,530 --> 00:57:06,400
away from the river things like that

1357
00:57:10,020 --> 00:57:07,540
because of course they could they could

1358
00:57:11,130 --> 00:57:10,030
drown the essential light on the story

1359
00:57:13,260 --> 00:57:11,140
there's there's lots of different

1360
00:57:15,330 --> 00:57:13,270
variations but the basic story is that

1361
00:57:18,540 --> 00:57:15,340
people here in New Mexico and elsewhere

1362
00:57:20,820 --> 00:57:18,550
are are they're told usually it's

1363
00:57:23,040 --> 00:57:20,830
usually its parents telling children not

1364
00:57:24,990 --> 00:57:23,050
to go near the water unattended you know

1365
00:57:27,030 --> 00:57:25,000
be very careful near the water and the

1366
00:57:28,560 --> 00:57:27,040
the the course the real reason is

1367
00:57:30,270 --> 00:57:28,570
because they don't want them to fall in

1368
00:57:32,940 --> 00:57:30,280
and have some bad happen but the the

1369
00:57:36,150 --> 00:57:32,950
sort of more fantastical reason is that

1370
00:57:38,220 --> 00:57:36,160
the story goes that if you are alone

1371
00:57:39,120 --> 00:57:38,230
near the water usually you know there's

1372
00:57:41,190 --> 00:57:39,130
all sorts of again

1373
00:57:44,160 --> 00:57:41,200
also all sorts of variants sometimes

1374
00:57:45,780 --> 00:57:44,170
it's on a on a moonless night and the

1375
00:57:48,510 --> 00:57:45,790
story goes that if you're if you're near

1376
00:57:54,450 --> 00:57:48,520
the water that you you'll sometimes hear

1377
00:57:56,820 --> 00:57:54,460
of a call yeah which means my daughter's

1378
00:57:59,670 --> 00:57:56,830
my daughter's for me host me see host my

1379
00:58:01,320 --> 00:57:59,680
children won't mind my boys and if you

1380
00:58:03,000 --> 00:58:01,330
hear this and sometimes of course is

1381
00:58:04,200 --> 00:58:03,010
combined with rustling in the trees you

1382
00:58:05,370 --> 00:58:04,210
know the wind going through the trees so

1383
00:58:08,040 --> 00:58:05,380
you can sort of interpret the evidence

1384
00:58:10,140 --> 00:58:08,050
either way that if you hear this three

1385
00:58:12,570 --> 00:58:10,150
times lighter onna will come and get you

1386
00:58:15,540 --> 00:58:12,580
and the idea is that she's this woman

1387
00:58:17,970 --> 00:58:15,550
who drowned her children and she's now

1388
00:58:20,250 --> 00:58:17,980
walking the waterways the the ditches

1389
00:58:20,760 --> 00:58:20,260
and rivers and lakes looking for

1390
00:58:22,740 --> 00:58:20,770
children

1391
00:58:25,380 --> 00:58:22,750
grabbed and abduct to replace her own

1392
00:58:26,910 --> 00:58:25,390
children and that the backstory is that

1393
00:58:29,220 --> 00:58:26,920
she was there again there's a couple

1394
00:58:32,100 --> 00:58:29,230
variations but one one common one is

1395
00:58:34,590 --> 00:58:32,110
that she was a beautiful young woman who

1396
00:58:36,360 --> 00:58:34,600
had three children usually three

1397
00:58:39,150 --> 00:58:36,370
sometimes two or four but three is about

1398
00:58:41,760 --> 00:58:39,160
average and that she fell in love with

1399
00:58:44,520 --> 00:58:41,770
her husband had died and she fell in

1400
00:58:46,710 --> 00:58:44,530
love with a young man who would come to

1401
00:58:48,660 --> 00:58:46,720
town but he couldn't accept her children

1402
00:58:50,280 --> 00:58:48,670
he said you know I love you and I want

1403
00:58:51,810 --> 00:58:50,290
to be with you but I I can't I can't

1404
00:58:56,400 --> 00:58:51,820
have a ready-made family like this

1405
00:58:57,960 --> 00:58:56,410
and so yeah in her so she she she ended

1406
00:58:59,880 --> 00:58:57,970
up drowning her children for his love

1407
00:59:02,250 --> 00:58:59,890
and she took him to the river and drown

1408
00:59:04,560 --> 00:59:02,260
them one by one and then they they died

1409
00:59:06,480 --> 00:59:04,570
and then soon she realized the horrific

1410
00:59:10,020 --> 00:59:06,490
crime that she'd done and she became mad

1411
00:59:12,840 --> 00:59:10,030
with grief and to this day she would you

1412
00:59:14,730 --> 00:59:12,850
know be seen in a very very tied in with

1413
00:59:16,770 --> 00:59:14,740
ghosts ghost stories and ghost lore of

1414
00:59:18,660 --> 00:59:16,780
course to this day she's seen up and

1415
00:59:21,270 --> 00:59:18,670
going up and down looking for children

1416
00:59:23,730 --> 00:59:21,280
to abduct yeah I found some very

1417
00:59:26,780 --> 00:59:23,740
interesting historical accounts that

1418
00:59:30,420 --> 00:59:26,790
could be related to proto La Llorona

1419
00:59:32,910 --> 00:59:30,430
Tigers belief going all the way back

1420
00:59:36,750 --> 00:59:32,920
into the Mayan culture in one example

1421
00:59:38,490 --> 00:59:36,760
and then also back to Spain mm-hmm so it

1422
00:59:41,370 --> 00:59:38,500
may have been brought over by the

1423
00:59:44,190 --> 00:59:41,380
conquistadores and and sort of morphed

1424
00:59:46,200 --> 00:59:44,200
in with a Mayan sort of twist to it and

1425
00:59:49,050 --> 00:59:46,210
then it's of course over hundreds of

1426
00:59:50,640 --> 00:59:49,060
years it's grown legs and a life of its

1427
00:59:55,530 --> 00:59:50,650
own and in Colorado it's a little

1428
00:59:57,450 --> 00:59:55,540
different it's a woman who again drowned

1429
01:00:01,140 --> 00:59:57,460
her children but then she drowned

1430
01:00:04,110 --> 01:00:01,150
herself and she is now a ghost wandering

1431
01:00:06,750 --> 01:00:04,120
up and down the canals that shoot off

1432
01:00:08,700 --> 01:00:06,760
the various rivers up in the San Luis

1433
01:00:11,670 --> 01:00:08,710
Valley and I have had a number of

1434
01:00:13,910 --> 01:00:11,680
reports over the years of people mostly

1435
01:00:16,770 --> 01:00:13,920
on the southwest side of the valley and

1436
01:00:20,070 --> 01:00:16,780
predominantly Hispanic area they're

1437
01:00:22,340 --> 01:00:20,080
reporting a very bizarre wailing sound

1438
01:00:25,110 --> 01:00:22,350
that did not conform to any of the local

1439
01:00:28,590 --> 01:00:25,120
wildlife any sort of environmental

1440
01:00:32,010 --> 01:00:28,600
sounds and engine basically they would

1441
01:00:33,570 --> 01:00:32,020
say look I my family and myself have

1442
01:00:34,860 --> 01:00:33,580
never heard anything like this we we

1443
01:00:37,200 --> 01:00:34,870
called our neighbors they went

1444
01:00:40,260 --> 01:00:37,210
outside they heard it too you know we

1445
01:00:46,230 --> 01:00:40,270
can't figure out what it is so it must

1446
01:00:47,880 --> 01:00:46,240
be law your own to get that I know I

1447
01:00:49,620 --> 01:00:47,890
love that sort of story and I heard

1448
01:00:51,150 --> 01:00:49,630
similar things I hear and here in

1449
01:00:53,730 --> 01:00:51,160
Albuquerque when I was interviewing

1450
01:00:55,110 --> 01:00:53,740
people and also I came across a great

1451
01:00:57,390 --> 01:00:55,120
book I don't have write in Fernie but

1452
01:01:00,000 --> 01:00:57,400
there's a great book by to Santa Fe

1453
01:01:02,460 --> 01:01:00,010
researchers who had collected I think

1454
01:01:03,660 --> 01:01:02,470
over 50 stories of later onna like true

1455
01:01:05,310 --> 01:01:03,670
first-hand reports again we're not

1456
01:01:07,020 --> 01:01:05,320
talking like you know it is said that

1457
01:01:08,760 --> 01:01:07,030
these are people who truly which is of

1458
01:01:11,070 --> 01:01:08,770
course is one of the one of the

1459
01:01:12,480 --> 01:01:11,080
characteristics of an urban legend it's

1460
01:01:15,480 --> 01:01:12,490
you know what we call folk tales or a

1461
01:01:18,030 --> 01:01:15,490
friend of a friend fo AF which is you

1462
01:01:19,980 --> 01:01:18,040
know maybe I didn't see La Llorona but

1463
01:01:22,920 --> 01:01:19,990
you know my friends cousins grandmothers

1464
01:01:26,160 --> 01:01:22,930
you know gardeners cab drivers boyfriend

1465
01:01:28,260 --> 01:01:26,170
did or vice versa or in some cases the

1466
01:01:29,730 --> 01:01:28,270
it's actually you huh you have the

1467
01:01:31,770 --> 01:01:29,740
lighter own stories incorporated into

1468
01:01:33,450 --> 01:01:31,780
family lore and so there's a couple

1469
01:01:36,600 --> 01:01:33,460
cases that I actually I actually quote a

1470
01:01:39,480 --> 01:01:36,610
woman at the opening part of the chapter

1471
01:01:42,720 --> 01:01:39,490
who who's who's relating a story told by

1472
01:01:46,170 --> 01:01:42,730
her grandmother and that when she was a

1473
01:01:47,550 --> 01:01:46,180
child in Albuquerque she she went down

1474
01:01:49,950 --> 01:01:47,560
to the river and you know she and her

1475
01:01:50,670 --> 01:01:49,960
brothers were down there and later on I

1476
01:01:53,130 --> 01:01:50,680
came up together

1477
01:01:54,720 --> 01:01:53,140
and and told this whole whole story as a

1478
01:01:55,830 --> 01:01:54,730
first-person story and so it's

1479
01:01:58,110 --> 01:01:55,840
fascinating to sort of look at these

1480
01:02:00,240 --> 01:01:58,120
things and sort of see the see the the

1481
01:02:02,280 --> 01:02:00,250
you know the different variations and

1482
01:02:05,040 --> 01:02:02,290
and you know you were talking about you

1483
01:02:07,770 --> 01:02:05,050
know how people truly believe this and a

1484
01:02:10,920 --> 01:02:07,780
lot of times what happens is that it's

1485
01:02:13,080 --> 01:02:10,930
not just a cautionary tale for children

1486
01:02:14,940 --> 01:02:13,090
I mean many times it is because one of

1487
01:02:16,590 --> 01:02:14,950
the main functions is know trying to

1488
01:02:18,750 --> 01:02:16,600
keep kids safe but what's interesting

1489
01:02:20,250 --> 01:02:18,760
about the law your honor story is that

1490
01:02:22,140 --> 01:02:20,260
it has a message for children the

1491
01:02:24,030 --> 01:02:22,150
message for children is you know don't

1492
01:02:25,410 --> 01:02:24,040
go near a dangerous place because bad

1493
01:02:27,810 --> 01:02:25,420
things can happen to you whether it's

1494
01:02:29,970 --> 01:02:27,820
later on or falling in the river but it

1495
01:02:32,460 --> 01:02:29,980
also at the at the same time has another

1496
01:02:35,190 --> 01:02:32,470
has another context which is a message

1497
01:02:38,970 --> 01:02:35,200
to parents and the message to parents is

1498
01:02:41,280 --> 01:02:38,980
keep an eye on your kids and so by by by

1499
01:02:45,630 --> 01:02:41,290
creating or using this sort of

1500
01:02:48,540 --> 01:02:45,640
independent third third party ghost evil

1501
01:02:50,490 --> 01:02:48,550
spirit then it threatens both of

1502
01:02:53,610 --> 01:02:50,500
and it's a really interesting element of

1503
01:02:55,140 --> 01:02:53,620
social control and and so you sort of

1504
01:02:57,720 --> 01:02:55,150
get messages for both parents and

1505
01:03:00,000 --> 01:02:57,730
children then you've also got people who

1506
01:03:02,400 --> 01:03:00,010
are talking about how as adults they

1507
01:03:03,840 --> 01:03:02,410
were told not to go out because light

1508
01:03:05,400 --> 01:03:03,850
Rona will get you so one of the

1509
01:03:07,560 --> 01:03:05,410
fascinating things is that some of the

1510
01:03:09,660 --> 01:03:07,570
stories are actually of adults through

1511
01:03:11,280 --> 01:03:09,670
being warned so they say you know their

1512
01:03:13,260 --> 01:03:11,290
stories like well yeah my husband used

1513
01:03:14,850 --> 01:03:13,270
to chase girls and drink but then one

1514
01:03:16,620 --> 01:03:14,860
night when he was when he was out there

1515
01:03:18,780 --> 01:03:16,630
doing that he actually saw my Llorona

1516
01:03:21,240 --> 01:03:18,790
and to this day he hasn't touched a drop

1517
01:03:24,060 --> 01:03:21,250
of liquor and he's faithful as ever so

1518
01:03:26,580 --> 01:03:24,070
the stories go both ways let that be a

1519
01:03:28,350 --> 01:03:26,590
lesson to you gentlemen watch out what

1520
01:03:32,340 --> 01:03:28,360
happens when you take a little bit of a

1521
01:03:34,650 --> 01:03:32,350
sip of that sauce mysterious New Mexico

1522
01:03:36,510 --> 01:03:34,660
is the book the mysterious Ben Radford's

1523
01:03:39,460 --> 01:03:36,520
here talk about it with Gene and Kris

1524
01:03:46,309 --> 01:03:39,470
you're in the para cast

1525
01:03:50,029 --> 01:03:48,739
first game attack of the rock codes and

1526
01:03:52,130 --> 01:03:50,039
it was a critically acclaimed success

1527
01:03:53,900 --> 01:03:52,140
and now there's the coming of the

1528
01:03:56,209 --> 01:03:53,910
protectors a former military

1529
01:03:58,430 --> 01:03:56,219
intelligence man is contacted by a space

1530
01:04:01,009 --> 01:03:58,440
woman in a dream a dream that turns out

1531
01:04:02,449 --> 01:04:01,019
to be a nightmare because evil forces on

1532
01:04:03,289 --> 01:04:02,459
our distant planet are planning to

1533
01:04:05,959 --> 01:04:03,299
conquer the earth

1534
01:04:08,420 --> 01:04:05,969
this is gripping science fiction of the

1535
01:04:10,489 --> 01:04:08,430
classic kind attack of the rock OIG's

1536
01:04:13,069 --> 01:04:10,499
and the coming of the protectors find

1537
01:04:17,479 --> 01:04:13,079
out more at Rockettes calm that's rock

1538
01:04:19,999 --> 01:04:17,489
oh it's our Ock oids calm do you need a

1539
01:04:22,689 --> 01:04:20,009
website well you can get a great deal on

1540
01:04:25,400 --> 01:04:22,699
hosting services with namecheap s--

1541
01:04:27,559 --> 01:04:25,410
legendary coupon code they're offering

1542
01:04:29,920 --> 01:04:27,569
substantial hosting discounts on shared

1543
01:04:32,390 --> 01:04:29,930
hosting business hosting VPS hosting

1544
01:04:35,029 --> 01:04:32,400
reseller hosting and even dedicated

1545
01:04:37,219 --> 01:04:35,039
servers Namecheap is preferred by

1546
01:04:40,880 --> 01:04:37,229
millions it's backed by a money-back

1547
01:04:43,039 --> 01:04:40,890
guarantee use the coupon code legendary

1548
01:04:47,689 --> 01:04:43,049
to cash in on the special deal at

1549
01:04:50,269 --> 01:04:47,699
namecheap.com namecheap.com mike's

1550
01:04:52,099 --> 01:04:50,279
tennyson fremitus resources and no time

1551
01:04:54,529 --> 01:04:52,109
in history have precious metals been

1552
01:04:56,329 --> 01:04:54,539
more important certainly not in my 22

1553
01:04:58,670 --> 01:04:56,339
years in the industry the dollar has

1554
01:04:59,539 --> 01:04:58,680
lost over 90% of its value in the last

1555
01:05:01,999 --> 01:04:59,549
60 years

1556
01:05:04,130 --> 01:05:02,009
no fiat currency has ever survived the

1557
01:05:07,479 --> 01:05:04,140
government printing presses ours is not

1558
01:05:11,449 --> 01:05:07,489
immune the time is now to be proactive

1559
01:05:14,479 --> 01:05:11,459
1-866 to 237 extension one one six

1560
01:05:18,289 --> 01:05:14,489
anything tied to the dollar is at risk

1561
01:05:20,809 --> 01:05:18,299
CDs annuities 401ks IRAs stocks bonds

1562
01:05:22,759 --> 01:05:20,819
you name it so decide do you want to

1563
01:05:25,219 --> 01:05:22,769
leave a legacy of wealth or debt for

1564
01:05:27,229 --> 01:05:25,229
your family the choice is yours call me

1565
01:05:29,870 --> 01:05:27,239
at one eight hundred six eight six two

1566
01:05:32,089 --> 01:05:29,880
two thirty seven extension one one six

1567
01:05:34,789 --> 01:05:32,099
that's one eight hundred six eight six

1568
01:05:38,770 --> 01:05:34,799
two two three seven extension one one

1569
01:05:48,590 --> 01:05:38,780
six be proactive not reactive call

1570
01:05:53,730 --> 01:05:51,360
summertime is saved big time at herbal

1571
01:05:55,860 --> 01:05:53,740
healer Academy long-term customers know

1572
01:05:58,230 --> 01:05:55,870
summer is the time to stock up at herbal

1573
01:06:00,150 --> 01:05:58,240
healer calm and for new customers

1574
01:06:02,820 --> 01:06:00,160
welcome to the web's best place to save

1575
01:06:05,130 --> 01:06:02,830
on vitamins minerals and more logon for

1576
01:06:07,230 --> 01:06:05,140
summer specials including all sizes of

1577
01:06:10,110 --> 01:06:07,240
colloidal silver colloidal minerals and

1578
01:06:11,670 --> 01:06:10,120
intestinal freedom on sale choose from

1579
01:06:13,410 --> 01:06:11,680
herbal healers great variety of

1580
01:06:16,140 --> 01:06:13,420
weight-loss products like apple cider

1581
01:06:18,930 --> 01:06:16,150
vinegar Judea and metabolic complex and

1582
01:06:21,060 --> 01:06:18,940
pro metabolic all on sale now also the

1583
01:06:23,580 --> 01:06:21,070
antiparasite intestinal freedom and

1584
01:06:25,830 --> 01:06:23,590
wormwood plus complex plus stevia liquid

1585
01:06:28,620 --> 01:06:25,840
sweetener and the super enzymes all on

1586
01:06:30,420 --> 01:06:28,630
sale for summer at herbal healer calm as

1587
01:06:32,010 --> 01:06:30,430
always we offer certificate

1588
01:06:34,170 --> 01:06:32,020
correspondence courses in natural

1589
01:06:36,210 --> 01:06:34,180
medicine enjoy same-day shipping and

1590
01:06:38,580 --> 01:06:36,220
free online newsletter log on now to

1591
01:06:40,620 --> 01:06:38,590
herbal healer calm and look for summer

1592
01:06:42,330 --> 01:06:40,630
specials to save big with our nation's

1593
01:06:45,840 --> 01:06:42,340
leader in supplying quality natural

1594
01:06:50,100 --> 01:06:45,850
medicine and education since 1988 herbal

1595
01:06:52,890 --> 01:06:50,110
healer Academy if you need to say happy

1596
01:06:54,540 --> 01:06:52,900
birthday happy anniversary thank you or

1597
01:06:57,870 --> 01:06:54,550
simply I'm thinking of you

1598
01:06:59,910 --> 01:06:57,880
proflowers.com is the key ProFlowers has

1599
01:07:03,960 --> 01:06:59,920
stunning bouquets like the best-selling

1600
01:07:05,880 --> 01:07:03,970
100 blooms for $19.99 plus ProFlowers

1601
01:07:08,100 --> 01:07:05,890
will include a glass vase for free

1602
01:07:10,140 --> 01:07:08,110
sending someone a wonderful surprise of

1603
01:07:11,520 --> 01:07:10,150
beautiful flowers scent fresh from the

1604
01:07:13,680 --> 01:07:11,530
field is easy

1605
01:07:16,650 --> 01:07:13,690
choose the bouquet you like pick the

1606
01:07:17,520 --> 01:07:16,660
delivery date and each order is 100%

1607
01:07:20,040 --> 01:07:17,530
guaranteed

1608
01:07:22,470 --> 01:07:20,050
plus all bouquets from pro flowers are

1609
01:07:25,380 --> 01:07:22,480
guaranteed to last at least seven full

1610
01:07:27,210 --> 01:07:25,390
days beautiful fragrant flowers picked

1611
01:07:29,760 --> 01:07:27,220
fresh and sent to your loved one for

1612
01:07:32,310 --> 01:07:29,770
lasting enjoyment to get this incredible

1613
01:07:35,730 --> 01:07:32,320
savings and send someone 100 gorgeous

1614
01:07:38,550 --> 01:07:35,740
blooms with a free vase for $19.99 go to

1615
01:07:40,590 --> 01:07:38,560
proflowers.com click the blue microphone

1616
01:07:44,130 --> 01:07:40,600
in the top right corner and enter code

1617
01:07:51,180 --> 01:07:44,140
plow that's proflowers.com click the mic

1618
01:07:53,220 --> 01:07:51,190
and enter code PLO w we'd like to hear

1619
01:07:55,269 --> 01:07:53,230
from you if you have a comment or

1620
01:07:59,439 --> 01:07:55,279
question about the para cast

1621
01:08:02,409 --> 01:07:59,449
2news at the para caste calm that's news

1622
01:08:04,359 --> 01:08:02,419
at the para caste dot-com and don't

1623
01:08:07,449 --> 01:08:04,369
forget to visit our famous para caste

1624
01:08:11,739 --> 01:08:07,459
community forums at forum dot the para

1625
01:08:13,809 --> 01:08:11,749
cast calm so let me ask you a quick

1626
01:08:16,599 --> 01:08:13,819
question here Ben Radford as we continue

1627
01:08:20,439 --> 01:08:16,609
with mysterious new mexico has there

1628
01:08:23,200 --> 01:08:20,449
ever been an unusual case anywhere that

1629
01:08:25,769 --> 01:08:23,210
you think might be something that cannot

1630
01:08:27,789 --> 01:08:25,779
be explained in a mundane fashion

1631
01:08:31,899 --> 01:08:27,799
inquiring minds want to know

1632
01:08:33,970 --> 01:08:31,909
know it's kind of a hard question to

1633
01:08:36,309 --> 01:08:33,980
answer I mean I'm not trying to evade it

1634
01:08:38,260 --> 01:08:36,319
but it's part of the issue is that in

1635
01:08:40,539 --> 01:08:38,270
virtually every case that I have

1636
01:08:43,149 --> 01:08:40,549
investigated I have found what I

1637
01:08:45,519 --> 01:08:43,159
consider to be a plausible legitimate

1638
01:08:47,620 --> 01:08:45,529
science-based answer now that doesn't

1639
01:08:49,870 --> 01:08:47,630
mean that if I investigate a haunted

1640
01:08:51,399 --> 01:08:49,880
house next week or a ghost sighting you

1641
01:08:53,769 --> 01:08:51,409
know or monster sighting whatever else

1642
01:08:56,349 --> 01:08:53,779
next month or next year it won't be

1643
01:08:59,169 --> 01:08:56,359
paranormal or truly of unknown origin

1644
01:09:00,579 --> 01:08:59,179
but part of the issue is that the cases

1645
01:09:02,109 --> 01:09:00,589
that I choose to spend my time on

1646
01:09:04,180 --> 01:09:02,119
because it's it's very much my own time

1647
01:09:05,620 --> 01:09:04,190
and and this is mostly independently

1648
01:09:07,539 --> 01:09:05,630
funded it's not like I've got you know

1649
01:09:09,279 --> 01:09:07,549
some some foundation throwing the

1650
01:09:10,959 --> 01:09:09,289
thousands of dollars to do these these

1651
01:09:13,329 --> 01:09:10,969
investigations it's pretty much on my

1652
01:09:15,999 --> 01:09:13,339
own time my own time because of that I

1653
01:09:17,979 --> 01:09:16,009
have to choose the cases that are that

1654
01:09:21,039 --> 01:09:17,989
there's good quality evidence for them

1655
01:09:23,169 --> 01:09:21,049
so so because I'm gonna naturally going

1656
01:09:25,059 --> 01:09:23,179
to choose the cases where there's more

1657
01:09:27,039 --> 01:09:25,069
information you know if given the choice

1658
01:09:28,569 --> 01:09:27,049
between someone saying well you know 20

1659
01:09:30,309 --> 01:09:28,579
years ago I was camping in the mountains

1660
01:09:32,799 --> 01:09:30,319
and I saw this weird mysterious thing

1661
01:09:34,029 --> 01:09:32,809
fly overhead and that's it

1662
01:09:35,620 --> 01:09:34,039
you know no one else saw it there's no

1663
01:09:37,720 --> 01:09:35,630
photos and videos there's nothing I can

1664
01:09:39,910 --> 01:09:37,730
do with that it may be totally true it

1665
01:09:41,589 --> 01:09:39,920
could it actually been a UFO but there's

1666
01:09:43,809 --> 01:09:41,599
not enough evidence for me to work from

1667
01:09:46,689 --> 01:09:43,819
I would rather investigate a case where

1668
01:09:47,709 --> 01:09:46,699
yes there's this mysterious hotel and

1669
01:09:49,390 --> 01:09:47,719
there's these videos and all the

1670
01:09:51,039 --> 01:09:49,400
eyewitnesses and so there's there's a

1671
01:09:54,249 --> 01:09:51,049
there's a positive correlation between

1672
01:09:55,779 --> 01:09:54,259
how likely a mystery is to be solved and

1673
01:09:59,799 --> 01:09:55,789
how much evidence there is for it and so

1674
01:10:01,209 --> 01:09:59,809
I select the ones that I that there's

1675
01:10:02,649 --> 01:10:01,219
most evidence for and not search the

1676
01:10:05,109 --> 01:10:02,659
ones that I think I can debunk because I

1677
01:10:07,540 --> 01:10:05,119
I like a challenge I mean I I would love

1678
01:10:09,070 --> 01:10:07,550
to find some mystery though that I can't

1679
01:10:11,230 --> 01:10:09,080
solve and maybe one day I will

1680
01:10:13,810 --> 01:10:11,240
but for the most part the ones I'm

1681
01:10:16,030 --> 01:10:13,820
looking at are ones that that are

1682
01:10:18,420 --> 01:10:16,040
potentially solvable and I'm generally

1683
01:10:21,070 --> 01:10:18,430
successful at it yeah I totally agree

1684
01:10:23,050 --> 01:10:21,080
I've said a number of times over the

1685
01:10:24,580 --> 01:10:23,060
years at conferences and when I've been

1686
01:10:27,610 --> 01:10:24,590
asked have you ever been punked or

1687
01:10:31,870 --> 01:10:27,620
hoaxed I always bring up the the Crystal

1688
01:10:33,940 --> 01:10:31,880
Skull event which I debunked by the way

1689
01:10:35,230 --> 01:10:33,950
which you don't acknowledge that in the

1690
01:10:41,590 --> 01:10:35,240
book you never called me why did you

1691
01:10:44,590 --> 01:10:41,600
call me been givin you a lot of very

1692
01:10:46,540 --> 01:10:44,600
interesting information about finally

1693
01:10:49,150 --> 01:10:46,550
being able to locate the the make of the

1694
01:10:52,960 --> 01:10:49,160
Glasgow I totally gave you credit I mean

1695
01:10:54,460 --> 01:10:52,970
you're you're loud I'm sorry now and you

1696
01:10:56,290 --> 01:10:54,470
love me and we're the true believers you

1697
01:10:59,080 --> 01:10:56,300
did not put my name on the crest own

1698
01:11:01,000 --> 01:10:59,090
Eagle article which exposed the hoax I

1699
01:11:03,010 --> 01:11:01,010
didn't know you wrote the crow no no cuz

1700
01:11:05,800 --> 01:11:03,020
Brad told me that he'd never mentioned

1701
01:11:12,760 --> 01:11:05,810
the second book where I go into detail

1702
01:11:14,830 --> 01:11:12,770
about my debunking of the all right my

1703
01:11:18,340 --> 01:11:14,840
bad you know this this case occurred

1704
01:11:20,800 --> 01:11:18,350
almost 200 miles away from New Mexico as

1705
01:11:22,650 --> 01:11:20,810
well I won't quibble on that one I

1706
01:11:24,910 --> 01:11:22,660
consider the the San Luis Valley

1707
01:11:27,610 --> 01:11:24,920
geologically because the valley actually

1708
01:11:29,200 --> 01:11:27,620
does geologically the tip of it the

1709
01:11:32,260 --> 01:11:29,210
southern tip of it does go down to Taos

1710
01:11:34,150 --> 01:11:32,270
mm-hmm but the actual name San Luis

1711
01:11:36,610 --> 01:11:34,160
Valley only refers to the Colorado

1712
01:11:37,600 --> 01:11:36,620
portion of it I don't want it quits

1713
01:11:39,970 --> 01:11:37,610
right that's fine

1714
01:11:41,440 --> 01:11:39,980
you know I investigated cases outside of

1715
01:11:43,750 --> 01:11:41,450
the valley and referred to it as the

1716
01:11:45,520 --> 01:11:43,760
Greater San Luis Valley so okay anyway

1717
01:11:47,980 --> 01:11:45,530
let's let's talk about the the skull

1718
01:11:49,810 --> 01:11:47,990
case I'd love to hear your synopsis on

1719
01:11:51,790 --> 01:11:49,820
this and then I'll I'll chime in with

1720
01:11:54,250 --> 01:11:51,800
some pertinent details being that I am

1721
01:11:57,040 --> 01:11:54,260
the person that actually publicized this

1722
01:11:58,990 --> 01:11:57,050
particular claim by Donna coach

1723
01:12:00,550 --> 01:11:59,000
absolutely and this is one of the this

1724
01:12:03,250 --> 01:12:00,560
is one of the cool parts about being a

1725
01:12:05,950 --> 01:12:03,260
researcher is being able to to go back

1726
01:12:08,320 --> 01:12:05,960
and you know and and show you know who

1727
01:12:10,450 --> 01:12:08,330
had these different roles in it yeah I

1728
01:12:12,940 --> 01:12:10,460
mean I I've always assumed that that you

1729
01:12:15,100 --> 01:12:12,950
are one of the one of the one of the

1730
01:12:16,030 --> 01:12:15,110
people that put this together i but one

1731
01:12:18,190 --> 01:12:16,040
of the things about thus ensuring that

1732
01:12:20,170 --> 01:12:18,200
this chapter is that I was able

1733
01:12:22,600 --> 01:12:20,180
successfully I think but you may think

1734
01:12:25,240 --> 01:12:22,610
otherwise to tell to pare

1735
01:12:28,840 --> 01:12:25,250
all stories so on one hand we had we had

1736
01:12:29,950 --> 01:12:28,850
Donna coach that's that's okay is how

1737
01:12:32,200 --> 01:12:29,960
she pronounced it yeah

1738
01:12:33,970 --> 01:12:32,210
okay watch some people pronounced it

1739
01:12:36,040 --> 01:12:33,980
Koch's well I like the color brothers

1740
01:12:38,439 --> 01:12:36,050
those are two totally different seasons

1741
01:12:41,709 --> 01:12:38,449
but you met her which one does she say

1742
01:12:43,840 --> 01:12:41,719
she said coach but it's actually

1743
01:12:44,950 --> 01:12:43,850
pronounced coach so you're saying that

1744
01:12:46,930 --> 01:12:44,960
it's actually pronounced differently

1745
01:12:48,910 --> 01:12:46,940
that she pronounced it yeah there's

1746
01:12:53,140 --> 01:12:48,920
there's very there's different ways to

1747
01:12:55,120 --> 01:12:53,150
say it smoke its cook it scotch same

1748
01:12:58,270 --> 01:12:55,130
spelling there's different ways to say

1749
01:13:01,780 --> 01:12:58,280
it well she called herself Donna Koch

1750
01:13:04,629 --> 01:13:01,790
Donna Conover so so we have her her

1751
01:13:06,459 --> 01:13:04,639
crystal skull which of course as as you

1752
01:13:07,660 --> 01:13:06,469
know and others know it was not actually

1753
01:13:09,340 --> 01:13:07,670
crystal but it's you know that was

1754
01:13:10,930 --> 01:13:09,350
certainly the tied in with the whole

1755
01:13:13,450 --> 01:13:10,940
thing and then we have the

1756
01:13:15,310 --> 01:13:13,460
mitchell-hedges skull which is the most

1757
01:13:16,840 --> 01:13:15,320
the most famous one so I tried to sort

1758
01:13:18,970 --> 01:13:16,850
of tell these two parallel stories yes

1759
01:13:21,459 --> 01:13:18,980
it was a good good job doing that by the

1760
01:13:22,689 --> 01:13:21,469
way I like thank you I was trying to

1761
01:13:26,109 --> 01:13:22,699
sort of because it's it's fascinating

1762
01:13:28,810 --> 01:13:26,119
story so this is why you know for

1763
01:13:30,879 --> 01:13:28,820
example the the Crystal Skull story as I

1764
01:13:32,740 --> 01:13:30,889
noted know Aryans you know it as well

1765
01:13:34,629 --> 01:13:32,750
it's not it's not I don't consider that

1766
01:13:36,790 --> 01:13:34,639
to be a certainly uniquely New Mexican

1767
01:13:39,340 --> 01:13:36,800
mystery has has connections you know

1768
01:13:41,379 --> 01:13:39,350
Brad was down here and the skulls were

1769
01:13:44,080 --> 01:13:41,389
here where else but in terms of you know

1770
01:13:49,270 --> 01:13:44,090
it certainly could could be in a book on

1771
01:13:50,350 --> 01:13:49,280
Colorado as well because some people are

1772
01:13:53,430 --> 01:13:50,360
scratching their heads going what the

1773
01:13:55,450 --> 01:13:53,440
heck they died right right so basically

1774
01:13:57,000 --> 01:13:55,460
there's a hint well it's sort of hard to

1775
01:13:59,590 --> 01:13:57,010
figure out where do you start basically

1776
01:14:01,750 --> 01:13:59,600
there's a strong tradition in new-age

1777
01:14:03,310 --> 01:14:01,760
circles of the importance of crystals

1778
01:14:04,540 --> 01:14:03,320
and you know that it's you know all

1779
01:14:06,100 --> 01:14:04,550
these has all these powers and

1780
01:14:08,439 --> 01:14:06,110
frequencies in this and that it's

1781
01:14:11,229 --> 01:14:08,449
probably the the most prized among among

1782
01:14:13,030 --> 01:14:11,239
gems in the new-age circles and in

1783
01:14:16,510 --> 01:14:13,040
addition to that you also have these

1784
01:14:18,280 --> 01:14:16,520
skulls that are carved and and other

1785
01:14:20,950 --> 01:14:18,290
people believe or actually you know a

1786
01:14:22,720 --> 01:14:20,960
human skull you have these bouncing all

1787
01:14:25,780 --> 01:14:22,730
around all these stories and legends

1788
01:14:30,459 --> 01:14:25,790
you've got dan Aykroyd the actor and

1789
01:14:33,310 --> 01:14:30,469
paranormal buff who has his own crystal

1790
01:14:35,380 --> 01:14:33,320
head vodka and he he relates stories of

1791
01:14:38,050 --> 01:14:35,390
13 crystal skulls around the world

1792
01:14:40,960 --> 01:14:38,060
if I'm not mistaken he actually lists

1793
01:14:42,040 --> 01:14:40,970
Donna coaches as one of them along with

1794
01:14:45,460 --> 01:14:42,050
the mitchell-hedges and a couple of

1795
01:14:51,700 --> 01:14:45,470
really yeah yeah yeah I quote him in the

1796
01:14:54,580 --> 01:14:51,710
Buddy calls yeah yeah this is one of Dan

1797
01:14:56,260 --> 01:14:54,590
Aykroyd's 13 crystal skulls so there's

1798
01:14:58,540 --> 01:14:56,270
there's this whole sort of legendary

1799
01:15:00,310 --> 01:14:58,550
context to it you know of course if

1800
01:15:01,450 --> 01:15:00,320
Steven Spielberg and Indiana Jones and

1801
01:15:04,270 --> 01:15:01,460
all this and so there's lots of

1802
01:15:06,250 --> 01:15:04,280
fascinating lore behind these and so the

1803
01:15:08,530 --> 01:15:06,260
story that I that I heard and again here

1804
01:15:10,600 --> 01:15:08,540
Chris you're by far the more expert on

1805
01:15:12,430 --> 01:15:10,610
this and I am so if I made corrections

1806
01:15:14,890 --> 01:15:12,440
please please feel free to chime in

1807
01:15:16,870 --> 01:15:14,900
I'll jump right in I'm sure you will the

1808
01:15:20,590 --> 01:15:16,880
according to one version that I heard

1809
01:15:23,470 --> 01:15:20,600
that the the Donna and a teenage Ranch

1810
01:15:25,480 --> 01:15:23,480
Hand were cruising around her property

1811
01:15:27,340 --> 01:15:25,490
in rural what's what's the name of that

1812
01:15:29,560 --> 01:15:27,350
particular area you have a better than

1813
01:15:31,210 --> 01:15:29,570
often just outside of Moffett Colorado

1814
01:15:32,920 --> 01:15:31,220
just outside them off the Colorado thank

1815
01:15:34,540 --> 01:15:32,930
you and again depending on there's

1816
01:15:36,040 --> 01:15:34,550
there's different versions which is why

1817
01:15:37,720 --> 01:15:36,050
it's sort of hard to tease out and say

1818
01:15:38,800 --> 01:15:37,730
this is the official version because

1819
01:15:40,360 --> 01:15:38,810
there's different people to say

1820
01:15:44,230 --> 01:15:40,370
different things but according to one

1821
01:15:46,390 --> 01:15:44,240
version her ranch hand went over some

1822
01:15:48,370 --> 01:15:46,400
distance and found this this item and

1823
01:15:51,640 --> 01:15:48,380
brought it back to her and it was this

1824
01:15:54,700 --> 01:15:51,650
weird either glass or crystal skull

1825
01:15:57,010 --> 01:15:54,710
looking figure and in another version I

1826
01:15:58,900 --> 01:15:57,020
I read that she herself found it so

1827
01:16:00,940 --> 01:15:58,910
there's some confusion there but she

1828
01:16:03,100 --> 01:16:00,950
then was wondering what is this

1829
01:16:05,530 --> 01:16:03,110
mysterious thing didn't know what it was

1830
01:16:07,930 --> 01:16:05,540
you know it's basically not in the

1831
01:16:10,150 --> 01:16:07,940
middle of nowhere but it's it's not on

1832
01:16:11,740 --> 01:16:10,160
the northeast corner of her property

1833
01:16:15,130 --> 01:16:11,750
northeast corner of her property right

1834
01:16:18,490 --> 01:16:15,140
so this is rural area and she sees this

1835
01:16:20,410 --> 01:16:18,500
and then takes it back home and and says

1836
01:16:22,180 --> 01:16:20,420
you know what what is this what do I

1837
01:16:23,620 --> 01:16:22,190
have here and you know what we're not

1838
01:16:25,840 --> 01:16:23,630
gonna have much here if we don't do this

1839
01:16:26,740 --> 01:16:25,850
break okay and then we'll look into our

1840
01:16:30,490 --> 01:16:26,750
crystal skulls

1841
01:16:36,180 --> 01:16:30,500
we have been Radford with gene and Chris

1842
01:16:41,410 --> 01:16:38,950
you're listening to GCN proudly

1843
01:16:43,630 --> 01:16:41,420
sponsored by unseen now calm lockdown

1844
01:16:48,160 --> 01:16:43,640
your digital life at unseen now calm

1845
01:16:50,410 --> 01:16:48,170
this is GC in graphic converter is the

1846
01:16:53,500 --> 01:16:50,420
image manipulation tool for the rest of

1847
01:16:55,750 --> 01:16:53,510
us it does not use any database you get

1848
01:16:58,419 --> 01:16:55,760
full control of all your files want to

1849
01:17:00,910 --> 01:16:58,429
view the images of a folder drag it into

1850
01:17:03,700 --> 01:17:00,920
graphic converter and a powerful browser

1851
01:17:05,770 --> 01:17:03,710
opens up to show your image files you

1852
01:17:08,050 --> 01:17:05,780
could use it for slideshows you could

1853
01:17:10,390 --> 01:17:08,060
use it to import images from digital

1854
01:17:12,370 --> 01:17:10,400
cameras or from scanners need to do some

1855
01:17:14,890 --> 01:17:12,380
image editing you can do that too and

1856
01:17:17,169 --> 01:17:14,900
graphic converter also print catalogs

1857
01:17:19,390 --> 01:17:17,179
convert from so many formats

1858
01:17:21,850 --> 01:17:19,400
I can't even list them download now to

1859
01:17:24,939 --> 01:17:21,860
see if graphic converter is good for you

1860
01:17:27,189 --> 01:17:24,949
like one and a half million other users

1861
01:17:29,560 --> 01:17:27,199
guess what you could save money when you

1862
01:17:32,410 --> 01:17:29,570
buy graphic converter use the coupon

1863
01:17:34,840 --> 01:17:32,420
code night-owl use the coupon code night

1864
01:17:38,160 --> 01:17:34,850
how to get a special price for graphic

1865
01:17:41,200 --> 01:17:38,170
converter go to Lemke soft calm Nets le

1866
01:17:51,760 --> 01:17:41,210
MK e soft calm

1867
01:17:54,790 --> 01:17:51,770
of America stand up and stop taking

1868
01:17:57,160 --> 01:17:54,800
abuse from your kids I pledge never to

1869
01:18:00,220 --> 01:17:57,170
let my kid disrespect me ever again I

1870
01:18:02,860 --> 01:18:00,230
pledge to stop letting my daughter walk

1871
01:18:06,070 --> 01:18:02,870
all over me I pledge to stop living in

1872
01:18:08,140 --> 01:18:06,080
fear of my son's anger I pledge never to

1873
01:18:10,780 --> 01:18:08,150
feel like a bad parent ever again

1874
01:18:13,090 --> 01:18:10,790
because I'm not I pledge to stop letting

1875
01:18:15,550 --> 01:18:13,100
my child's behavior control my home I

1876
01:18:18,430 --> 01:18:15,560
pledge to be a mom with kids who listen

1877
01:18:20,200 --> 01:18:18,440
a total transformation mom I'm Janet

1878
01:18:22,630 --> 01:18:20,210
Lehman co-creator of the total

1879
01:18:24,550 --> 01:18:22,640
transformation program we created the

1880
01:18:26,800 --> 01:18:24,560
total transformation to help parents

1881
01:18:29,050 --> 01:18:26,810
with difficult child behavior now I'm

1882
01:18:31,000 --> 01:18:29,060
giving it away free all you need to do

1883
01:18:32,709 --> 01:18:31,010
is get the program and let us know how

1884
01:18:35,680 --> 01:18:32,719
it works for you we'll let you keep it

1885
01:18:37,600 --> 01:18:35,690
for free call 1-800 two five six seven

1886
01:18:40,570 --> 01:18:37,610
seven nine five that's one eight hundred

1887
01:18:43,720 --> 01:18:40,580
two five six seven seven nine five call

1888
01:18:45,970 --> 01:18:43,730
now call 1-800 - five six seven seven

1889
01:18:46,209 --> 01:18:45,980
nine five that's one eight hundred to

1890
01:18:51,250 --> 01:18:46,219
five

1891
01:18:53,529 --> 01:18:51,260
food supply dot-com you can now purchase

1892
01:18:56,259 --> 01:18:53,539
a one-of-a-kind product not available

1893
01:18:58,989 --> 01:18:56,269
anywhere else a meatless burger dry mix

1894
01:19:01,209 --> 01:18:58,999
in four delicious flavors with our new

1895
01:19:03,700 --> 01:19:01,219
Oregon Trail foods vegan burgers all you

1896
01:19:05,620 --> 01:19:03,710
do is add water and fry they need no

1897
01:19:07,779 --> 01:19:05,630
refrigeration they're packaged in mylar

1898
01:19:09,850 --> 01:19:07,789
bags with an oxygen absorber for a long

1899
01:19:11,919 --> 01:19:09,860
shelf-life they're non-gmo they're

1900
01:19:13,899 --> 01:19:11,929
gluten soy nut in chemical free but

1901
01:19:15,850 --> 01:19:13,909
they're loaded with flavor and a good

1902
01:19:18,370 --> 01:19:15,860
source of carbs and protein yet low in

1903
01:19:20,319 --> 01:19:18,380
sodium flavors include Italian spicy

1904
01:19:23,439 --> 01:19:20,329
Mexican six vegetable and black bean

1905
01:19:25,750 --> 01:19:23,449
olive go-to 30-day food supply calm or

1906
01:19:29,169 --> 01:19:25,760
call five four one two two nine zero

1907
01:19:31,390 --> 01:19:29,179
zero one zero and order today eat them

1908
01:19:33,310 --> 01:19:31,400
every day take them camping or save them

1909
01:19:36,040 --> 01:19:33,320
for an emergency check them out at

1910
01:19:38,680 --> 01:19:36,050
30-day food supply comm and click on the

1911
01:19:40,899 --> 01:19:38,690
vegan burger icon that's 30 day food

1912
01:19:43,209 --> 01:19:40,909
supply calm where all of our products

1913
01:19:48,790 --> 01:19:43,219
are produced in Oregon by Oregon Trail

1914
01:19:51,129 --> 01:19:48,800
foods 30-day food supply calm the human

1915
01:19:53,049 --> 01:19:51,139
body is extraordinary despite all the

1916
01:19:55,060 --> 01:19:53,059
stresses we inflict upon it it still

1917
01:19:57,160 --> 01:19:55,070
works hard to stay in balance thousands

1918
01:19:59,109 --> 01:19:57,170
upon thousands of people rely upon heart

1919
01:20:01,899 --> 01:19:59,119
and body extract to help their body stay

1920
01:20:03,850 --> 01:20:01,909
balanced this excellent 100% natural

1921
01:20:05,709 --> 01:20:03,860
herbal formula helps maintain healthy

1922
01:20:08,020 --> 01:20:05,719
blood pressure levels cleans arteries

1923
01:20:10,689 --> 01:20:08,030
promotes good circulation balances

1924
01:20:12,850 --> 01:20:10,699
cholesterol and more HP extract paired

1925
01:20:14,770 --> 01:20:12,860
with healthy lifestyle choices like good

1926
01:20:16,989 --> 01:20:14,780
nutrition and exercise can give you a

1927
01:20:19,390 --> 01:20:16,999
life free of pain sickness and fear

1928
01:20:21,549 --> 01:20:19,400
recapture your youthful vitality and

1929
01:20:24,009 --> 01:20:21,559
experience your body healing itself with

1930
01:20:25,839 --> 01:20:24,019
the aid of HP extract is extremely

1931
01:20:28,779 --> 01:20:25,849
effective and it starts working in just

1932
01:20:30,759 --> 01:20:28,789
days visit HP extract calm to learn more

1933
01:20:32,799 --> 01:20:30,769
and to reach scores of testimonials from

1934
01:20:34,629 --> 01:20:32,809
satisfied customers and we've never

1935
01:20:36,790 --> 01:20:34,639
increased our price in over ten years

1936
01:20:38,649 --> 01:20:36,800
that makes heart and body extract as

1937
01:20:40,810 --> 01:20:38,659
great a value now as it was the first

1938
01:20:42,969 --> 01:20:40,820
day we sold it a healthy heart is a

1939
01:20:53,430 --> 01:20:42,979
happy heart call eight six six two nine

1940
01:21:00,100 --> 01:20:56,590
this is Jacques Vallee you're listening

1941
01:21:08,830 --> 01:21:00,110
to the podcast the gold standard of

1942
01:21:11,380 --> 01:21:08,840
paranormal radio the ins and outs the

1943
01:21:14,770 --> 01:21:11,390
reality and non-reality of crystal

1944
01:21:17,860 --> 01:21:14,780
skulls van Radford has more to tell more

1945
01:21:19,150 --> 01:21:17,870
to tell on it so so again I I wasn't

1946
01:21:20,800 --> 01:21:19,160
personally involved in this Chris was

1947
01:21:24,100 --> 01:21:20,810
but from what I understand and reading

1948
01:21:27,130 --> 01:21:24,110
his his book mysterious valley he talks

1949
01:21:29,040 --> 01:21:27,140
about how she contacted chris with the

1950
01:21:30,940 --> 01:21:29,050
discovery wanted him to help explain it

1951
01:21:33,370 --> 01:21:30,950
do you want to pick up the story from

1952
01:21:35,500 --> 01:21:33,380
there sure yeah you know up to this

1953
01:21:37,660 --> 01:21:35,510
point now I had been investigating

1954
01:21:41,380 --> 01:21:37,670
weirdness in the area for about five

1955
01:21:43,540 --> 01:21:41,390
years this was the first time some sort

1956
01:21:47,980 --> 01:21:43,550
of artifact had ever been presented me

1957
01:21:50,740 --> 01:21:47,990
to check into and the the skull was

1958
01:21:53,620 --> 01:21:50,750
smaller than your average Crystal Skull

1959
01:21:56,350 --> 01:21:53,630
it was only about maybe six inches seven

1960
01:22:00,130 --> 01:21:56,360
inches high the jaw was twisted to one

1961
01:22:02,950 --> 01:22:00,140
side it it looked deformed and this gave

1962
01:22:05,110 --> 01:22:02,960
it a rather alien looking countenance if

1963
01:22:07,990 --> 01:22:05,120
you will and you know the first thing I

1964
01:22:09,730 --> 01:22:08,000
did was I I called the world's at the

1965
01:22:12,730 --> 01:22:09,740
time considered the world's leading

1966
01:22:14,680 --> 01:22:12,740
expert on these enigmatic skulls that

1967
01:22:17,500 --> 01:22:14,690
are exclusively found pretty much down

1968
01:22:19,300 --> 01:22:17,510
in the Maya lands this was the first one

1969
01:22:22,270 --> 01:22:19,310
I had ever heard of that have been

1970
01:22:25,540 --> 01:22:22,280
discovered outside of of Chiapas or

1971
01:22:28,210 --> 01:22:25,550
Tabasco down in the Yucatan and in

1972
01:22:29,740 --> 01:22:28,220
Guatemala and so I called Nick no siree

1973
01:22:31,360 --> 01:22:29,750
know who at the time was considered the

1974
01:22:33,460 --> 01:22:31,370
top expert and he laughed at me he said

1975
01:22:37,900 --> 01:22:33,470
that you know there's just no way that

1976
01:22:40,390 --> 01:22:37,910
that's a genuine hi strange legendary

1977
01:22:42,990 --> 01:22:40,400
crystal skull and so you know I I

1978
01:22:44,710 --> 01:22:43,000
started my investigation automatically

1979
01:22:46,720 --> 01:22:44,720
assuming that there was something

1980
01:22:49,420 --> 01:22:46,730
strange about it but when I went out and

1981
01:22:52,240 --> 01:22:49,430
saw it the second time I went out to

1982
01:22:53,890 --> 01:22:52,250
film it with my video camera I'm not

1983
01:22:55,390 --> 01:22:53,900
sure the sequence of events here but

1984
01:22:59,110 --> 01:22:55,400
Donna said that she had brought it out

1985
01:23:01,210 --> 01:22:59,120
and a tire had exploded I think it was

1986
01:23:03,799 --> 01:23:01,220
on their truck of the trailer that they

1987
01:23:05,540 --> 01:23:03,809
don't know why it exploded it may have

1988
01:23:07,040 --> 01:23:05,550
than the air heating up in there and

1989
01:23:10,990 --> 01:23:07,050
there was a weak point in the tire but

1990
01:23:13,250 --> 01:23:11,000
it exploded I saw the exploded tire also

1991
01:23:15,049 --> 01:23:13,260
she claimed that there's a weird smell

1992
01:23:17,689 --> 01:23:15,059
that she smelled when it was brought out

1993
01:23:21,140 --> 01:23:17,699
from a kitchen cabinet and so she

1994
01:23:23,689 --> 01:23:21,150
started to subscribe to this kind of

1995
01:23:25,580 --> 01:23:23,699
mysteriousness around it and I'm

1996
01:23:27,080 --> 01:23:25,590
listening to all this and I go to to

1997
01:23:29,479 --> 01:23:27,090
start the videotape the skull in my

1998
01:23:31,069 --> 01:23:29,489
video camera was broken it just would

1999
01:23:35,029 --> 01:23:31,079
not work and it never did work after

2000
01:23:38,000 --> 01:23:35,039
that so today I really think that what

2001
01:23:40,160 --> 01:23:38,010
she had found was anything extraordinary

2002
01:23:41,990 --> 01:23:40,170
or by any stretch but then these weird

2003
01:23:43,060 --> 01:23:42,000
coincidences started piling up and I'll

2004
01:23:46,819 --> 01:23:43,070
let you take it from there

2005
01:23:49,520 --> 01:23:46,829
yeah so you had these and it's cool to

2006
01:23:51,830 --> 01:23:49,530
hear that I'm curious by the exploded

2007
01:23:53,720 --> 01:23:51,840
tire did it literally explode it yeah

2008
01:23:56,620 --> 01:23:53,730
yeah it looked like it had blown up from

2009
01:23:59,540 --> 01:23:56,630
the inside out it was on it was on the

2010
01:24:02,600 --> 01:23:59,550
trailer interesting okay because I mean

2011
01:24:10,430 --> 01:24:02,610
normally if if normally a tire wouldn't

2012
01:24:13,549 --> 01:24:10,440
explode I mean if there's so at that

2013
01:24:15,260 --> 01:24:13,559
point then she begins looking into and

2014
01:24:17,120 --> 01:24:15,270
again I'm sort of going by the structure

2015
01:24:19,520 --> 01:24:17,130
of the of the of the Bukit which is

2016
01:24:21,169 --> 01:24:19,530
correct as far as I know that she began

2017
01:24:24,350 --> 01:24:21,179
you know she was consulting with you and

2018
01:24:26,600 --> 01:24:24,360
then you were doing your best to try and

2019
01:24:28,760 --> 01:24:26,610
figure out what was going on well and

2020
01:24:31,339 --> 01:24:28,770
then meanwhile of course and I don't

2021
01:24:32,600 --> 01:24:31,349
know Donna coaches I don't know her

2022
01:24:35,109 --> 01:24:32,610
background in terms of whether she was

2023
01:24:38,620 --> 01:24:35,119
sort of a new age or what what her

2024
01:24:43,270 --> 01:24:38,630
hardscrabble you know French folks yeah

2025
01:24:46,580 --> 01:24:43,280
conservative right right so inclinations

2026
01:24:48,649 --> 01:24:46,590
towards that aspect of belief at all to

2027
01:24:50,750 --> 01:24:48,659
my knowledge right and what's

2028
01:24:52,760 --> 01:24:50,760
interesting about is that over and over

2029
01:24:54,919 --> 01:24:52,770
again in in my research to what happens

2030
01:24:56,510 --> 01:24:54,929
is that someone will find will discover

2031
01:24:59,080 --> 01:24:56,520
something they can't explain some sort

2032
01:25:01,939 --> 01:24:59,090
of unusual object or whatever it is and

2033
01:25:04,189 --> 01:25:01,949
particularly in the last 10-15 years and

2034
01:25:06,620 --> 01:25:04,199
where do they go with it they go to

2035
01:25:09,049 --> 01:25:06,630
internet they go to Google in this case

2036
01:25:10,669 --> 01:25:09,059
that was further back but but you people

2037
01:25:13,129 --> 01:25:10,679
are trying to figure out what's what is

2038
01:25:15,979 --> 01:25:13,139
this thing and these days that's one

2039
01:25:17,660 --> 01:25:15,989
reason for example why a lot of mangy

2040
01:25:20,060 --> 01:25:17,670
dogs and coyotes in Texas and

2041
01:25:22,430 --> 01:25:20,070
elsewhere are called chupacabras because

2042
01:25:23,720 --> 01:25:22,440
someone finds a dead animal they don't

2043
01:25:25,580 --> 01:25:23,730
immediately recognize it and they're

2044
01:25:27,500 --> 01:25:25,590
like well make Google dead weird dead

2045
01:25:29,120 --> 01:25:27,510
animal chupacabra pops up they're like

2046
01:25:32,060 --> 01:25:29,130
well this must be chupacabra like oh

2047
01:25:34,910 --> 01:25:32,070
that's not how that works guilt by

2048
01:25:37,280 --> 01:25:34,920
disassociation exactly yeah well put

2049
01:25:39,290 --> 01:25:37,290
well put but that's what happens even on

2050
01:25:41,630 --> 01:25:39,300
even without the internet you know you

2051
01:25:43,450 --> 01:25:41,640
with books and magazines and there are

2052
01:25:46,910 --> 01:25:43,460
sorts of things if you look up

2053
01:25:48,560 --> 01:25:46,920
mysterious weird crisp glass crystal

2054
01:25:50,600 --> 01:25:48,570
skull whatever else you're going to find

2055
01:25:52,790 --> 01:25:50,610
you can find information about the most

2056
01:25:54,410 --> 01:25:52,800
famous crystal skull in the world which

2057
01:25:56,510 --> 01:25:54,420
is the mitchell-hedges so hedges yeah

2058
01:26:02,150 --> 01:25:56,520
and we don't know if we have time to go

2059
01:26:03,800 --> 01:26:02,160
into that whole story but it's well yeah

2060
01:26:06,860 --> 01:26:03,810
I don't know how much you want to get

2061
01:26:09,500 --> 01:26:06,870
into it just because it's a young I want

2062
01:26:11,240 --> 01:26:09,510
to say that I'm a little taken aback

2063
01:26:13,970 --> 01:26:11,250
that you weren't aware that I debunked

2064
01:26:19,010 --> 01:26:13,980
this whole thing that it was my digging

2065
01:26:22,970 --> 01:26:19,020
I found out about shot as through mutual

2066
01:26:26,240 --> 01:26:22,980
acquaintances I was able to contact him

2067
01:26:27,770 --> 01:26:26,250
and get the lowdown we played phone tag

2068
01:26:29,810 --> 01:26:27,780
a little bit he finally got ahold of me

2069
01:26:33,020 --> 01:26:29,820
I did an extensive interview with him

2070
01:26:35,479 --> 01:26:33,030
and I wrote an entire expose of the

2071
01:26:37,700 --> 01:26:35,489
skull for the crest on Eagle and this

2072
01:26:41,000 --> 01:26:37,710
was the last bit of writing that I did

2073
01:26:44,479 --> 01:26:41,010
for my first book so I literally delayed

2074
01:26:46,760 --> 01:26:44,489
turning in my manuscript prior to

2075
01:26:48,050 --> 01:26:46,770
finding shart shot as I had no choice I

2076
01:26:50,660 --> 01:26:48,060
had to have the book turned in like

2077
01:26:53,090 --> 01:26:50,670
within a matter of days and so I turned

2078
01:26:56,660 --> 01:26:53,100
in the book with this story left hanging

2079
01:26:58,220 --> 01:26:56,670
and then obviously once the I delivered

2080
01:27:00,229 --> 01:26:58,230
it to the manuscript to the publisher

2081
01:27:02,419 --> 01:27:00,239
two years before the book came out and

2082
01:27:03,979 --> 01:27:02,429
of course by then by the time I was able

2083
01:27:06,100 --> 01:27:03,989
to turn in the manuscript for my second

2084
01:27:09,020 --> 01:27:06,110
book I did a complete debunking of the

2085
01:27:11,510 --> 01:27:09,030
mysterious Crystal Skull I'm a little

2086
01:27:13,040 --> 01:27:11,520
saddened that you were not aware of that

2087
01:27:15,590 --> 01:27:13,050
or that she didn't put me as the author

2088
01:27:18,979 --> 01:27:15,600
of the article that finally finally blew

2089
01:27:21,380 --> 01:27:18,989
the lid off brad has read the Rocky

2090
01:27:23,510 --> 01:27:21,390
Mountain news article that came out they

2091
01:27:25,370 --> 01:27:23,520
came down and talked to Donna they were

2092
01:27:26,990 --> 01:27:25,380
doing conferences with this thing people

2093
01:27:28,520 --> 01:27:27,000
were coming from as far away as the east

2094
01:27:30,800 --> 01:27:28,530
coast to meditate with it

2095
01:27:31,130 --> 01:27:30,810
it really grew legs and started to get a

2096
01:27:32,600 --> 01:27:31,140
little

2097
01:27:35,930 --> 01:27:32,610
and that people coming all the way from

2098
01:27:41,930 --> 01:27:35,940
Minnesota to sit with it it became quite

2099
01:27:42,620 --> 01:27:41,940
a celebrated piece of New Age hardware

2100
01:27:44,360 --> 01:27:42,630
if you will

2101
01:27:46,610 --> 01:27:44,370
yeah well I mean let me just say I mean

2102
01:27:49,250 --> 01:27:46,620
I'm certainly for the record I apologize

2103
01:27:51,020 --> 01:27:49,260
if you feel slighted about about your

2104
01:27:53,030 --> 01:27:51,030
role in it so much slide I was just

2105
01:27:55,160 --> 01:27:53,040
surprised because I would figure that

2106
01:28:02,480 --> 01:27:55,170
you know you're a really good researcher

2107
01:28:05,630 --> 01:28:02,490
and the article I have a copy of it I

2108
01:28:07,460 --> 01:28:05,640
had I have a confidence somewhere it's

2109
01:28:10,520 --> 01:28:07,470
in the files but I think the real

2110
01:28:11,300 --> 01:28:10,530
problem honestly is that is that your

2111
01:28:13,070 --> 01:28:11,310
book

2112
01:28:15,590 --> 01:28:13,080
the mysterious valley which I read

2113
01:28:17,540 --> 01:28:15,600
thoroughly doesn't have any of this so I

2114
01:28:20,710 --> 01:28:17,550
mean you can certainly argue that I

2115
01:28:23,300 --> 01:28:20,720
missed the follow-ups but you know I

2116
01:28:26,240 --> 01:28:23,310
that was the main source that I had for

2117
01:28:29,000 --> 01:28:26,250
this right and so and so you know so

2118
01:28:30,710 --> 01:28:29,010
that was your book the main book that I

2119
01:28:35,930 --> 01:28:30,720
used as a source for this didn't have

2120
01:28:39,710 --> 01:28:35,940
all this follow up well I don't have all

2121
01:28:43,070 --> 01:28:39,720
your books I and I know again I'm

2122
01:28:45,350 --> 01:28:43,080
certainly a blog you have to vlog me

2123
01:28:49,700 --> 01:28:45,360
afterwards but but again I mean I mean

2124
01:28:51,830 --> 01:28:49,710
look I I can tell you this you know if

2125
01:28:53,570 --> 01:28:51,840
if that if mysterious the mysterious

2126
01:28:55,130 --> 01:28:53,580
Valley which again I've read through and

2127
01:28:57,500 --> 01:28:55,140
you know I have my shelf right there

2128
01:29:00,050 --> 01:28:57,510
it's it's you know it's it's it's good

2129
01:29:01,820 --> 01:29:00,060
stuff if that had included this you know

2130
01:29:03,230 --> 01:29:01,830
you can be served that you would have

2131
01:29:04,880 --> 01:29:03,240
much more prominent role in it and so I

2132
01:29:07,280 --> 01:29:04,890
certainly did not in any way mean to

2133
01:29:09,320 --> 01:29:07,290
diminish your role in all this at all

2134
01:29:09,770 --> 01:29:09,330
let me just say this Chris cuz you'll

2135
01:29:13,520 --> 01:29:09,780
like it

2136
01:29:15,110 --> 01:29:13,530
I'm gonna make it easy for everyone out

2137
01:29:17,510 --> 01:29:15,120
there to get at least one of Chris's

2138
01:29:19,940 --> 01:29:17,520
books okay this is gonna be the easiest

2139
01:29:22,430 --> 01:29:19,950
way possible here's how to do it we've

2140
01:29:24,830 --> 01:29:22,440
got a weekly newsletter called the power

2141
01:29:27,320 --> 01:29:24,840
cast newsletter you can sign up very

2142
01:29:30,980 --> 01:29:27,330
easily go to our main site the power

2143
01:29:32,510 --> 01:29:30,990
cast calm the power cast calm and you'll

2144
01:29:35,060 --> 01:29:32,520
see the sign up page there right above

2145
01:29:36,860 --> 01:29:35,070
the fold and you'll also see that we're

2146
01:29:39,890 --> 01:29:36,870
giving away a free copy of the ebook

2147
01:29:42,320 --> 01:29:39,900
version of secrets of the mysterious

2148
01:29:44,630 --> 01:29:42,330
valley by Chris O'Brien so to get a free

2149
01:29:47,600 --> 01:29:44,640
copy of secrets of the mists

2150
01:29:49,610 --> 01:29:47,610
Jarius Valley by Chris O'Brien and I'm

2151
01:29:53,000 --> 01:29:49,620
sure we'll get a copy out to Ben Radford

2152
01:29:57,050 --> 01:29:53,010
shortly just go once again to our site

2153
01:29:58,310 --> 01:29:57,060
the para cast come the power cast come

2154
01:30:00,680 --> 01:29:58,320
in the fact that you just go to power

2155
01:30:03,410 --> 01:30:00,690
cast come goes to the same place that's

2156
01:30:06,500 --> 01:30:03,420
a big secret and there's a big sign up

2157
01:30:08,090 --> 01:30:06,510
form above the fold just sign up for our

2158
01:30:10,010 --> 01:30:08,100
weekly newsletter which tells you about

2159
01:30:11,690 --> 01:30:10,020
future shows and it's got commentaries

2160
01:30:13,880 --> 01:30:11,700
and everything you'll like it and you'll

2161
01:30:16,760 --> 01:30:13,890
also like the fact that you get a free

2162
01:30:20,480 --> 01:30:16,770
copy of secrets of the mysterious valley

2163
01:30:22,970 --> 01:30:20,490
by Chris and Ben can have one too yes I

2164
01:30:25,040 --> 01:30:22,980
want one too okay sign up for the

2165
01:30:26,750 --> 01:30:25,050
newsletter and you'll get your copy Ben

2166
01:30:33,130 --> 01:30:26,760
Radford joins us with gene and Chris

2167
01:30:33,140 --> 01:30:36,340
[Music]

2168
01:30:41,260 --> 01:30:38,660
not just an alternative to the

2169
01:30:43,550 --> 01:30:41,270
mainstream media we're the premier

2170
01:30:48,200 --> 01:30:43,560
independent talk radio network

2171
01:30:50,300 --> 01:30:48,210
we are G C n so here's what happened I

2172
01:30:52,850 --> 01:30:50,310
was placing an order online the site

2173
01:30:54,620 --> 01:30:52,860
went down it took hours before it

2174
01:30:56,420 --> 01:30:54,630
returned but I'd already placed the

2175
01:30:58,880 --> 01:30:56,430
order with another company if your site

2176
01:31:00,440 --> 01:30:58,890
goes down you could lose business and if

2177
01:31:02,780 --> 01:31:00,450
you have a business or personal site

2178
01:31:06,320 --> 01:31:02,790
you'll want to know it's easy to run and

2179
01:31:08,690 --> 01:31:06,330
it will stay online at iWeb your site is

2180
01:31:11,480 --> 01:31:08,700
hosted on one of the most reliable

2181
01:31:14,630 --> 01:31:11,490
networks in the world talk to a sales

2182
01:31:16,970 --> 01:31:14,640
rep at iWeb comm use the promo code tech

2183
01:31:18,650 --> 01:31:16,980
night out for a special discount first

2184
01:31:20,720 --> 01:31:18,660
game attack of the rock codes and it was

2185
01:31:22,670 --> 01:31:20,730
a critically acclaimed success and now

2186
01:31:24,800 --> 01:31:22,680
there's the coming of the protectors a

2187
01:31:27,080 --> 01:31:24,810
former military intelligence man is

2188
01:31:28,850 --> 01:31:27,090
contacted by a space woman in a dream a

2189
01:31:31,310 --> 01:31:28,860
dream that turns out to be a nightmare

2190
01:31:33,050 --> 01:31:31,320
because evil forces on our distant

2191
01:31:35,690 --> 01:31:33,060
planet are planning to conquer the earth

2192
01:31:38,150 --> 01:31:35,700
this is gripping science fiction of the

2193
01:31:40,220 --> 01:31:38,160
classic kind attack of the rock codes

2194
01:31:42,980 --> 01:31:40,230
and the coming of the protectors find

2195
01:31:47,060 --> 01:31:42,990
out more and Rockets calm that's rock oh

2196
01:31:49,100 --> 01:31:47,070
it's our Ock oids calm we all know that

2197
01:31:50,690 --> 01:31:49,110
berkey water purification systems are

2198
01:31:52,700 --> 01:31:50,700
the most trusted name in water

2199
01:31:54,560 --> 01:31:52,710
filtration as an authorized Berkey

2200
01:31:56,570 --> 01:31:54,570
dealer for over 6 years in serving

2201
01:31:59,030 --> 01:31:56,580
thousands of satisfied customers the

2202
01:32:01,010 --> 01:31:59,040
Berkey guy offers amazing specials for

2203
01:32:02,630 --> 01:32:01,020
berkey water filtration systems the

2204
01:32:04,670 --> 01:32:02,640
murky light systems include a set of

2205
01:32:06,650 --> 01:32:04,680
self-sterilizing and re cleanable black

2206
01:32:09,080 --> 01:32:06,660
purification elements that purify water

2207
01:32:11,300 --> 01:32:09,090
by removing chlorine pathogenic bacteria

2208
01:32:13,520 --> 01:32:11,310
cysts and parasites two non detectable

2209
01:32:15,560 --> 01:32:13,530
levels and remove harmful chemicals such

2210
01:32:17,420 --> 01:32:15,570
as herbicides and pesticides order the

2211
01:32:20,090 --> 01:32:17,430
Berkey light system today complete with

2212
01:32:21,860 --> 01:32:20,100
two black per key elements for only 231

2213
01:32:23,630 --> 01:32:21,870
dollars and the Berkey guy will ship

2214
01:32:25,340 --> 01:32:23,640
your order free of charge with the

2215
01:32:27,380 --> 01:32:25,350
purchase of a per key light the Berkey

2216
01:32:29,570 --> 01:32:27,390
guy is also offering a set of fluoride

2217
01:32:31,880 --> 01:32:29,580
and arsenic filters for only $39.99

2218
01:32:32,420 --> 01:32:31,890
that's over 30 percent off the retail

2219
01:32:34,640 --> 01:32:32,430
price

2220
01:32:36,890 --> 01:32:34,650
call the Berkey guy at one eight seven

2221
01:32:39,050 --> 01:32:36,900
seven eight eight six three six five

2222
01:32:41,810 --> 01:32:39,060
three that's one eight seven seven eight

2223
01:32:44,420 --> 01:32:41,820
eight six three six five three or order

2224
01:32:48,490 --> 01:32:44,430
online at Gober Keep Calm that's Gober

2225
01:32:52,870 --> 01:32:50,550
we live in a complicated society

2226
01:32:54,910 --> 01:32:52,880
stressful issues are always popping up

2227
01:32:56,740 --> 01:32:54,920
have you ever been treated unfairly by

2228
01:32:58,510 --> 01:32:56,750
someone have you ever been overcharged

2229
01:33:00,460 --> 01:32:58,520
for a repair have you ever sent a

2230
01:33:02,260 --> 01:33:00,470
contract or a document worried about

2231
01:33:04,060 --> 01:33:02,270
identity theft how many times have you

2232
01:33:05,650 --> 01:33:04,070
been in those unique situations where

2233
01:33:07,270 --> 01:33:05,660
you just wanted to call an attorney to

2234
01:33:09,250 --> 01:33:07,280
find out if you're right or wrong or

2235
01:33:10,510 --> 01:33:09,260
what your legal rights are but every

2236
01:33:12,580 --> 01:33:10,520
time you think about calling an attorney

2237
01:33:14,770 --> 01:33:12,590
what do you think about first that's

2238
01:33:17,110 --> 01:33:14,780
right who do you call and how much will

2239
01:33:18,880 --> 01:33:17,120
it cost our friends at Legal Shield have

2240
01:33:21,580 --> 01:33:18,890
found a solution with a nationwide

2241
01:33:23,800 --> 01:33:21,590
network of 6900 attorneys who average

2242
01:33:25,990 --> 01:33:23,810
over 19 years of experience legal

2243
01:33:28,030 --> 01:33:26,000
shields law firms take over 40,000 calls

2244
01:33:30,370 --> 01:33:28,040
per week helping their members for less

2245
01:33:32,050 --> 01:33:30,380
than $20 per month you can have access

2246
01:33:34,000 --> 01:33:32,060
to legal shield on everything from the

2247
01:33:36,280 --> 01:33:34,010
trivial to the traumatic let legal

2248
01:33:38,770 --> 01:33:36,290
shield stand up for your rights at LS

2249
01:33:42,820 --> 01:33:38,780
protection calm that's LS protection

2250
01:33:45,010 --> 01:33:42,830
calm or call 855 3 4 0 save eight five

2251
01:33:47,140 --> 01:33:45,020
five three four zero seventy two eighty

2252
01:33:49,870 --> 01:33:47,150
three results will vary from case to

2253
01:33:51,730 --> 01:33:49,880
case don't complain about your cable

2254
01:33:52,780 --> 01:33:51,740
bill going up and up and out do

2255
01:33:54,550 --> 01:33:52,790
something about it

2256
01:33:58,570 --> 01:33:54,560
grab a pencil and jot down this special

2257
01:34:00,280 --> 01:33:58,580
number 1 855 905 my TV the more cable TV

2258
01:34:03,070 --> 01:34:00,290
rates go up the better digital satellite

2259
01:34:04,720 --> 01:34:03,080
TV looks say goodbye to the Cable Guy

2260
01:34:07,090 --> 01:34:04,730
and get more of your favorite channels

2261
01:34:11,140 --> 01:34:07,100
than 100% digital quality or less money

2262
01:34:13,210 --> 01:34:11,150
call 185 905 my TV sign up for packages

2263
01:34:15,400 --> 01:34:13,220
starting as low as $19.99 and there's no

2264
01:34:17,620 --> 01:34:15,410
equipment to buy you get free HD TV

2265
01:34:19,720 --> 01:34:17,630
upgrade a free DVR upgraded free

2266
01:34:22,120 --> 01:34:19,730
professional installation you control

2267
01:34:23,920 --> 01:34:22,130
what you watch when you watch it record

2268
01:34:26,920 --> 01:34:23,930
your favorite shows pause and rewind

2269
01:34:29,920 --> 01:34:26,930
live TV even skip the commercials watch

2270
01:34:30,880 --> 01:34:29,930
local channels - at just $19.99 what are

2271
01:34:32,410 --> 01:34:30,890
you waiting for

2272
01:34:38,320 --> 01:34:32,420
pull out your major credit or debit card

2273
01:34:40,900 --> 01:34:38,330
call 1-800 5my TV 1 855 905 my TV say

2274
01:34:50,120 --> 01:34:40,910
goodbye to the Cable Guy cut costs and

2275
01:34:57,550 --> 01:34:54,480
[Music]

2276
01:34:59,830 --> 01:34:57,560
this is the wrong tire co-author of the

2277
01:35:05,890 --> 01:34:59,840
UFO encyclopedia other books you're

2278
01:35:08,170 --> 01:35:05,900
listening to the parrot cap and by the

2279
01:35:11,260 --> 01:35:08,180
way the other books are available from

2280
01:35:13,840 --> 01:35:11,270
Chris's site our strange planet calm you

2281
01:35:15,640 --> 01:35:13,850
could buy the other books ebook versions

2282
01:35:17,260 --> 01:35:15,650
or print versions where they're still

2283
01:35:19,360 --> 01:35:17,270
available but the book we're talking

2284
01:35:23,290 --> 01:35:19,370
about today that we heartily recommend

2285
01:35:25,540 --> 01:35:23,300
is mysterious New Mexico by Ben Radford

2286
01:35:29,020 --> 01:35:25,550
of course Chris was telling us all how

2287
01:35:30,640 --> 01:35:29,030
he exposed the crystal skulls and this

2288
01:35:33,670 --> 01:35:30,650
is an interesting thing Chris we should

2289
01:35:36,280 --> 01:35:33,680
mention these legends are exposed we

2290
01:35:38,020 --> 01:35:36,290
mentioned before Astec New Mexico UFO

2291
01:35:40,180 --> 01:35:38,030
case and most of us agree there's

2292
01:35:43,690 --> 01:35:40,190
nothing to it but when it comes to a

2293
01:35:45,430 --> 01:35:43,700
situation like crystal skulls we still

2294
01:35:49,390 --> 01:35:45,440
have the conventions we still have the

2295
01:35:52,750 --> 01:35:49,400
mysticism you can never stop beating a

2296
01:35:55,540 --> 01:35:52,760
dead horse Kenya no I and you know what

2297
01:35:57,880 --> 01:35:55,550
gene after I had finally gotten to the

2298
01:35:59,530 --> 01:35:57,890
bottom of this particular mystery you

2299
01:36:01,420 --> 01:35:59,540
know I kind of became friendly with Brad

2300
01:36:03,040 --> 01:36:01,430
shot as the glassblower who actually

2301
01:36:05,320 --> 01:36:03,050
made it and this skull actually was one

2302
01:36:07,120 --> 01:36:05,330
of his rejects and that's why he had

2303
01:36:11,320 --> 01:36:07,130
given it to his parents who lived next

2304
01:36:13,060 --> 01:36:11,330
door to Donna and they had put it out he

2305
01:36:15,820 --> 01:36:13,070
had put it out there as a talisman kind

2306
01:36:17,950 --> 01:36:15,830
of on the south east corner of their

2307
01:36:19,450 --> 01:36:17,960
property just the northwest corner I

2308
01:36:21,750 --> 01:36:19,460
think of Donna's property or the other

2309
01:36:24,220 --> 01:36:21,760
way around it's been 20 years here but

2310
01:36:27,370 --> 01:36:24,230
one thing that I found very intriguing

2311
01:36:28,810 --> 01:36:27,380
is is he we said how do you like these

2312
01:36:30,160 --> 01:36:28,820
weird-looking ones I said yeah and he

2313
01:36:32,830 --> 01:36:30,170
goes why I got a bunch of him drop me to

2314
01:36:34,720 --> 01:36:32,840
send them to you and I said I said sure

2315
01:36:37,000 --> 01:36:34,730
and he sent me a half dozen of these

2316
01:36:40,240 --> 01:36:37,010
things all his rejects I got makes these

2317
01:36:42,250 --> 01:36:40,250
things today the Dead festival this is

2318
01:36:44,230 --> 01:36:42,260
this is great I'd love tell me tell me

2319
01:36:45,370 --> 01:36:44,240
more about the the how the whole what

2320
01:36:46,210 --> 01:36:45,380
the whole fallout was because that

2321
01:36:49,510 --> 01:36:46,220
because I don't I don't know that

2322
01:36:51,310 --> 01:36:49,520
obviously if I'd yeah Brad was really he

2323
01:36:54,160 --> 01:36:51,320
had given the skull to his parents as

2324
01:36:57,010 --> 01:36:54,170
like a lucky charm basically and and

2325
01:36:59,200 --> 01:36:57,020
they had decided to place it on the the

2326
01:37:01,330 --> 01:36:59,210
eastern corner of their ranch I think it

2327
01:37:03,640 --> 01:37:01,340
would have been the north eastern corner

2328
01:37:05,110 --> 01:37:03,650
Donna founded on the South the

2329
01:37:06,100 --> 01:37:05,120
southeastern corner of her property and

2330
01:37:07,629 --> 01:37:06,110
was right there at

2331
01:37:09,040 --> 01:37:07,639
that fence post let me ask you because

2332
01:37:11,229 --> 01:37:09,050
again there's two different versions

2333
01:37:13,720 --> 01:37:11,239
that I've had I heard that that Donna's

2334
01:37:15,760 --> 01:37:13,730
teenage ranch hand found it and brought

2335
01:37:16,990 --> 01:37:15,770
it to her you just said that she found

2336
01:37:18,970 --> 01:37:17,000
it do you know which one it is yeah the

2337
01:37:20,950 --> 01:37:18,980
story I got from Donna was that they

2338
01:37:23,649 --> 01:37:20,960
were out riding the fence line together

2339
01:37:26,260 --> 01:37:23,659
he saw the glint in the Sun she went

2340
01:37:28,570 --> 01:37:26,270
over and picked it up okay now now Brad

2341
01:37:30,189 --> 01:37:28,580
as you know he claimed and he told me I

2342
01:37:32,050 --> 01:37:30,199
assume he told you the same thing that

2343
01:37:34,629 --> 01:37:32,060
he'd actually left it not out in the

2344
01:37:36,399 --> 01:37:34,639
open but inside a Crown Royal bag yeah

2345
01:37:39,129 --> 01:37:36,409
yeah that's what he had told me to so

2346
01:37:43,140 --> 01:37:39,139
okay so so what how do we reconcile that

2347
01:37:51,310 --> 01:37:48,939
mean it was just enough showing that the

2348
01:37:53,740 --> 01:37:51,320
Sun glinted off of it right but look I

2349
01:37:55,479 --> 01:37:53,750
mean you can't you know the the the fact

2350
01:37:59,500 --> 01:37:55,489
that this thing if it wasn't he found

2351
01:38:02,020 --> 01:37:59,510
inside a coin Crown Royal bag sort of

2352
01:38:04,450 --> 01:38:02,030
diminishes its mystical significance I

2353
01:38:06,490 --> 01:38:04,460
mean oh yeah yeah exactly and in the

2354
01:38:09,490 --> 01:38:06,500
fact that that that's what a shot as

2355
01:38:11,260 --> 01:38:09,500
claims was that was the case really does

2356
01:38:15,669 --> 01:38:11,270
point the acrimony a ting finger at

2357
01:38:20,320 --> 01:38:15,679
Donna who who did she knew about this

2358
01:38:22,419 --> 01:38:20,330
for the entire time she wanted to for

2359
01:38:24,930 --> 01:38:22,429
some reason this kind of lust for

2360
01:38:27,189 --> 01:38:24,940
celebrity worthiness issues

2361
01:38:30,399 --> 01:38:27,199
psychologically I think that she had

2362
01:38:32,229 --> 01:38:30,409
some issues about self-worth and in

2363
01:38:34,450 --> 01:38:32,239
other things I'm not a psychologist so I

2364
01:38:36,280 --> 01:38:34,460
don't know but but I would say that that

2365
01:38:38,080 --> 01:38:36,290
would be a potential motivating factor

2366
01:38:40,450 --> 01:38:38,090
in her okay she loved all the the

2367
01:38:41,620 --> 01:38:40,460
publicity the notoriety the Rocky

2368
01:38:43,030 --> 01:38:41,630
Mountain News came down did a big

2369
01:38:45,370 --> 01:38:43,040
feature story on this that's what

2370
01:38:47,770 --> 01:38:45,380
alerted Chad as initially right he had

2371
01:38:49,840 --> 01:38:47,780
heard rumblings about this from people

2372
01:38:51,430 --> 01:38:49,850
who had read my book and then when the

2373
01:38:53,859 --> 01:38:51,440
rocky mountain news article came out

2374
01:38:56,470 --> 01:38:53,869
that's when we both started playing

2375
01:38:58,720 --> 01:38:56,480
phone tag and yeah I you know this whole

2376
01:39:00,100 --> 01:38:58,730
thing about the the Denver hit Museum of

2377
01:39:02,530 --> 01:39:00,110
Natural History this is that's all news

2378
01:39:04,720 --> 01:39:02,540
to me well he he contacted me directly

2379
01:39:06,939 --> 01:39:04,730
basically and then we started playing

2380
01:39:08,410 --> 01:39:06,949
phone tag okay yeah it sounds like

2381
01:39:10,899 --> 01:39:08,420
between the two of us we we each have

2382
01:39:12,820 --> 01:39:10,909
different fragments and this is cool I

2383
01:39:14,530 --> 01:39:12,830
mean I'm really enjoying it so I tell

2384
01:39:17,080 --> 01:39:14,540
you what if if I get a chance to do a

2385
01:39:18,709 --> 01:39:17,090
second edition in this chapter it'll

2386
01:39:21,680 --> 01:39:18,719
definitely have a lot more unit

2387
01:39:25,220 --> 01:39:21,690
yeah and then suicide interviewed Brad I

2388
01:39:27,320 --> 01:39:25,230
immediately exposed the hoax immediately

2389
01:39:28,610 --> 01:39:27,330
because I was really getting I was

2390
01:39:30,500 --> 01:39:28,620
getting pulled into this people were

2391
01:39:32,360 --> 01:39:30,510
saying oh I meditated with the skull and

2392
01:39:34,790 --> 01:39:32,370
you're reincarnated Atlantean warrior

2393
01:39:37,070 --> 01:39:34,800
that's cool here to protect the children

2394
01:39:39,410 --> 01:39:37,080
of in the of the the city of the

2395
01:39:41,900 --> 01:39:39,420
children right about that I quoted

2396
01:39:44,630 --> 01:39:41,910
somebody in the book talking about how

2397
01:39:46,189 --> 01:39:44,640
they incorporated you he was done but

2398
01:39:49,160 --> 01:39:46,199
someone had cooperated into this whole

2399
01:39:51,850 --> 01:39:49,170
mythology yeah oh yeah no I was I was

2400
01:39:55,010 --> 01:39:51,860
you know this Atlantean reincarnated it

2401
01:39:59,209 --> 01:39:55,020
Atlantean or a warrior from you or

2402
01:40:00,890 --> 01:39:59,219
something I some antediluvian yeah and

2403
01:40:02,510 --> 01:40:00,900
people you know I was getting asked to

2404
01:40:08,959 --> 01:40:02,520
go speak at conferences and I was like

2405
01:40:12,530 --> 01:40:08,969
no mister calling dude you could have

2406
01:40:14,959 --> 01:40:12,540
done the whole rampa thing you know put

2407
01:40:17,270 --> 01:40:14,969
a blue turban on foot on my Hindi accent

2408
01:40:18,680 --> 01:40:17,280
and take these six other skulls and like

2409
01:40:29,530 --> 01:40:18,690
having you know pull them out of my

2410
01:40:35,479 --> 01:40:31,939
okay say do it again I want to hear this

2411
01:40:39,260 --> 01:40:35,489
accent folks you blend with the quick to

2412
01:40:40,640 --> 01:40:39,270
school there's some people a local

2413
01:40:43,510 --> 01:40:40,650
restaurant really good friends of mine

2414
01:40:48,020 --> 01:40:43,520
who will hear that and never ever ever

2415
01:40:49,760 --> 01:40:48,030
allow me to ever come to that restaurant

2416
01:40:51,080 --> 01:40:49,770
again no they'll they'll let you and

2417
01:40:52,729 --> 01:40:51,090
they'll just spit in your food yeah

2418
01:40:55,850 --> 01:40:52,739
don't just think I'm nuts and I just I'm

2419
01:40:57,140 --> 01:40:55,860
a very bad mimic well you can't come to

2420
01:41:00,380 --> 01:40:57,150
that restaurant with me next time you

2421
01:41:01,910 --> 01:41:00,390
hear okay so where's the school now well

2422
01:41:04,340 --> 01:41:01,920
you know it's interesting I actually

2423
01:41:06,050 --> 01:41:04,350
ended up giving all these skulls that

2424
01:41:07,880 --> 01:41:06,060
Brad sent me because there was such a I

2425
01:41:10,520 --> 01:41:07,890
just really didn't want to have anything

2426
01:41:12,380 --> 01:41:10,530
to do with this it really I was other

2427
01:41:14,959 --> 01:41:12,390
people had taken me to task for even

2428
01:41:16,760 --> 01:41:14,969
publicizing this even though I debunked

2429
01:41:18,979 --> 01:41:16,770
it I was still getting dogged and and I

2430
01:41:22,220 --> 01:41:18,989
think you know there's some legitimate

2431
01:41:25,010 --> 01:41:22,230
justification I think I was when I first

2432
01:41:27,200 --> 01:41:25,020
started out a little bit less skeptical

2433
01:41:29,689 --> 01:41:27,210
than I am now not much less but a little

2434
01:41:31,400 --> 01:41:29,699
less than I am now I'm very skeptical

2435
01:41:33,400 --> 01:41:31,410
you like you been of

2436
01:41:35,960 --> 01:41:33,410
most of what's being palmed off is

2437
01:41:40,030 --> 01:41:35,970
fodder for the true believer crowd yeah

2438
01:41:43,310 --> 01:41:40,040
but I ended up giving all six skulls to

2439
01:41:45,380 --> 01:41:43,320
donna who ran a little crystal shop

2440
01:41:48,350 --> 01:41:45,390
just down the road from Donna

2441
01:41:50,360 --> 01:41:48,360
Koch and she ended up I don't know what

2442
01:41:51,740 --> 01:41:50,370
she did with them but probably sold for

2443
01:41:52,910 --> 01:41:51,750
two million dollars each yes she

2444
01:41:55,640 --> 01:41:52,920
probably sold them for quite a bit of

2445
01:41:57,710 --> 01:41:55,650
money uh does Donna still have hers you

2446
01:42:00,290 --> 01:41:57,720
know I don't know I never spoke with her

2447
01:42:02,630 --> 01:42:00,300
again after I debunked this I you know I

2448
01:42:04,760 --> 01:42:02,640
tried to call her once or twice and was

2449
01:42:06,110 --> 01:42:04,770
pretty much told hey Donna really

2450
01:42:07,730 --> 01:42:06,120
doesn't want to talk to you she's really

2451
01:42:09,050 --> 01:42:07,740
embarrassed blah blah blah blah blah and

2452
01:42:12,380 --> 01:42:09,060
it's like well sorry to rain on your

2453
01:42:14,060 --> 01:42:12,390
parade but well you know I'm Ernest I'm

2454
01:42:18,350 --> 01:42:14,070
not I'm not somebody that's going to be

2455
01:42:20,780 --> 01:42:18,360
taken in and then I you know and they

2456
01:42:22,910 --> 01:42:20,790
ran they tried to Punk me and I just you

2457
01:42:24,620 --> 01:42:22,920
know I mean that's bad enough but but

2458
01:42:26,540 --> 01:42:24,630
then too you have all these people start

2459
01:42:28,850 --> 01:42:26,550
lumping me in as this you know this

2460
01:42:30,920 --> 01:42:28,860
special destiny person who you know was

2461
01:42:32,090 --> 01:42:30,930
involved in all this it really kind of

2462
01:42:34,820 --> 01:42:32,100
rubbed me the wrong way to be honest

2463
01:42:36,410 --> 01:42:34,830
with you no I totally agree and and you

2464
01:42:38,630 --> 01:42:36,420
know I'll go through again I I don't

2465
01:42:40,250 --> 01:42:38,640
recall painting you as you know sort of

2466
01:42:42,470 --> 01:42:40,260
complicit in it I mean I don't know you

2467
01:42:44,270 --> 01:42:42,480
just said well you know Donna and Chris

2468
01:42:49,940 --> 01:42:44,280
O'Brien are like many people to describe

2469
01:42:55,010 --> 01:42:52,880
we need to be fair you did like with the

2470
01:42:56,840 --> 01:42:55,020
with the glitch in the in the camera and

2471
01:42:58,910 --> 01:42:56,850
all that but but but again I I haven't

2472
01:43:01,160 --> 01:42:58,920
you know I need to get your you new book

2473
01:43:02,660 --> 01:43:01,170
so yeah well you know it is it is

2474
01:43:04,670 --> 01:43:02,670
interesting there were some very

2475
01:43:08,150 --> 01:43:04,680
interesting coincidences our baby was uh

2476
01:43:11,240 --> 01:43:08,160
got sick almost immediately after being

2477
01:43:14,110 --> 01:43:11,250
uh allegedly after being around this

2478
01:43:16,880 --> 01:43:14,120
thing there were a number of interesting

2479
01:43:19,370 --> 01:43:16,890
synchronistic coincidences that did

2480
01:43:22,730 --> 01:43:19,380
occur around this thing and before I had

2481
01:43:24,950 --> 01:43:22,740
discovered its origins this was a little

2482
01:43:26,810 --> 01:43:24,960
bit impressive I must admit I was

2483
01:43:29,570 --> 01:43:26,820
impressed by some of the synchronicities

2484
01:43:31,820 --> 01:43:29,580
that were that were present around this

2485
01:43:33,860 --> 01:43:31,830
thing and it just it just made the

2486
01:43:36,500 --> 01:43:33,870
snowball head down that hill that much

2487
01:43:38,330 --> 01:43:36,510
faster really did and and and I'll give

2488
01:43:40,190 --> 01:43:38,340
you all credit for acknowledging that I

2489
01:43:42,440 --> 01:43:40,200
mean I seriously do a lot of people who

2490
01:43:44,299 --> 01:43:42,450
I've talked to you know even if I point

2491
01:43:46,040 --> 01:43:44,309
out to them say look you know

2492
01:43:48,049 --> 01:43:46,050
this is this is not you know it's the

2493
01:43:49,819 --> 01:43:48,059
the fallacy of post hoc ergo propter hoc

2494
01:43:51,469 --> 01:43:49,829
you know after therefore because of it

2495
01:43:53,179 --> 01:43:51,479
you think that you know these things are

2496
01:43:55,609 --> 01:43:53,189
connected it's a very human thing we all

2497
01:43:59,629 --> 01:43:55,619
do it this isn't talked about that in

2498
01:44:01,969 --> 01:43:59,639
the chapter it's not I that's a part of

2499
01:44:03,889 --> 01:44:01,979
human nature exactly and so so I mean to

2500
01:44:05,359 --> 01:44:03,899
be honest if I were your position I

2501
01:44:07,909 --> 01:44:05,369
might have done exactly the same thing

2502
01:44:08,929 --> 01:44:07,919
say wow this is weird because this thing

2503
01:44:12,379 --> 01:44:08,939
shows up and these things are happening

2504
01:44:15,290 --> 01:44:12,389
and you know we all do it and and I give

2505
01:44:16,639 --> 01:44:15,300
you credit for for recognizing that and

2506
01:44:18,979 --> 01:44:16,649
putting it out there so that's this

2507
01:44:20,569 --> 01:44:18,989
whole story is is just a fascinating you

2508
01:44:22,639 --> 01:44:20,579
know on so many levels in terms of you

2509
01:44:25,040 --> 01:44:22,649
know was it a hoax was it you know was

2510
01:44:27,109 --> 01:44:25,050
it partly a hoax was it you know the the

2511
01:44:28,729 --> 01:44:27,119
it was it misunderstandings and then the

2512
01:44:31,069 --> 01:44:28,739
whole it was straight up and down it was

2513
01:44:32,449 --> 01:44:31,079
straight up and down a fabrication it

2514
01:44:35,869 --> 01:44:32,459
was straight up and down a hoax and the

2515
01:44:37,909 --> 01:44:35,879
only Oaks that I know about that was

2516
01:44:40,729 --> 01:44:37,919
ever attempted to be perpetrated on me

2517
01:44:42,589 --> 01:44:40,739
hmm okay interesting and that's in 13

2518
01:44:44,599 --> 01:44:42,599
years there are ten years of full-time

2519
01:44:46,429 --> 01:44:44,609
investigating there that was the only

2520
01:44:48,159 --> 01:44:46,439
time that I was able to determine

2521
01:44:49,429 --> 01:44:48,169
without any question that I was being

2522
01:44:52,879 --> 01:44:49,439
lied to

2523
01:44:54,829 --> 01:44:52,889
hoax fed a string of BS what however you

2524
01:44:56,540 --> 01:44:54,839
want to put it now obviously some of my

2525
01:44:58,849 --> 01:44:56,550
witnesses you know you never know

2526
01:45:00,589 --> 01:44:58,859
garbage in garbage out anecdotal stories

2527
01:45:02,569 --> 01:45:00,599
or the worth a dime a dozen as you all

2528
01:45:05,209 --> 01:45:02,579
know that's why I want to stick a a

2529
01:45:06,829 --> 01:45:05,219
seven camera surveillance in that on

2530
01:45:08,089 --> 01:45:06,839
cell towers and mountaintops around the

2531
01:45:10,579 --> 01:45:08,099
San Luis Valley so I can triangulate

2532
01:45:13,009 --> 01:45:10,589
some of these sightings and and get some

2533
01:45:14,899 --> 01:45:13,019
really good diagnostic scientific data

2534
01:45:17,509 --> 01:45:14,909
we have to triangulate these

2535
01:45:20,179 --> 01:45:17,519
announcements the book is mysterious New

2536
01:45:26,310 --> 01:45:20,189
Mexico been Radford's here with gene and

2537
01:45:32,050 --> 01:45:29,650
unseen now calm proud sponsor of GCS

2538
01:45:36,120 --> 01:45:32,060
unseen aus unparalleled encryption tools

2539
01:45:39,520 --> 01:45:36,130
keep your communication secure G C n

2540
01:45:41,680 --> 01:45:39,530
Dennis is defined as an origin creation

2541
01:45:43,450 --> 01:45:41,690
for the beginning Genesis communications

2542
01:45:45,100 --> 01:45:43,460
network began with the mission but

2543
01:45:47,230 --> 01:45:45,110
providing you with a kind of compelling

2544
01:45:49,090 --> 01:45:47,240
content you're listening to now and it G

2545
01:45:51,490 --> 01:45:49,100
C and live.com you'll find a free

2546
01:45:54,610 --> 01:45:51,500
archive of our nation's history narrated

2547
01:45:57,370 --> 01:45:54,620
by TC and hosts explore chip and passed

2548
01:45:58,720 --> 01:45:57,380
down to future generations GCN is the

2549
01:46:00,400 --> 01:45:58,730
future of talk radio

2550
01:46:03,790 --> 01:46:00,410
we should always strive to learn from

2551
01:46:07,990 --> 01:46:03,800
our past together we are G C in live.com

2552
01:46:09,640 --> 01:46:08,000
G C n hi this is Ted Anderson have you

2553
01:46:11,290 --> 01:46:09,650
ever wondered why banks stock workers

2554
01:46:13,140 --> 01:46:11,300
investment advisors won't talk about

2555
01:46:15,670 --> 01:46:13,150
gold IRAs they've been available since

2556
01:46:17,500 --> 01:46:15,680
1986 yet the financial industry won't

2557
01:46:18,130 --> 01:46:17,510
recognize the value of gold for your

2558
01:46:20,080 --> 01:46:18,140
retirement

2559
01:46:22,270 --> 01:46:20,090
gold has outperformed paper investments

2560
01:46:24,390 --> 01:46:22,280
yet no word about IRAs if you would like

2561
01:46:27,730 --> 01:46:24,400
to have gold for your retirement call

2562
01:46:30,090 --> 01:46:27,740
866 to 237 don't get left behind by

2563
01:46:38,760 --> 01:46:30,100
rising inflation and low returns call

2564
01:46:38,770 --> 01:47:08,190
[Music]

2565
01:47:08,200 --> 01:47:15,550
1-866-462-1922

2566
01:47:19,420 --> 01:47:16,930
you can't afford to rent with these

2567
01:47:21,490 --> 01:47:19,430
prices imagine a 70 by 100 foot church

2568
01:47:23,740 --> 01:47:21,500
building for under 69 thousand dollars

2569
01:47:26,020 --> 01:47:23,750
with the economy improving and interest

2570
01:47:30,070 --> 01:47:26,030
rates still at historic lows you can't

2571
01:47:33,820 --> 01:47:30,080
afford to wait so call 866 91 steel lock

2572
01:47:37,270 --> 01:47:33,830
in your price now call 866 91 steel

2573
01:47:41,300 --> 01:47:37,280
that's eight six six nine one seven 83

2574
01:47:41,310 --> 01:47:44,669
[Music]

2575
01:47:52,680 --> 01:47:48,370
welcome back to the para cast the gold

2576
01:48:01,030 --> 01:47:52,690
standard of paranormal radio and now

2577
01:48:03,490 --> 01:48:01,040
here's Jane Steinberg we're joined once

2578
01:48:05,200 --> 01:48:03,500
again by Benjamin Radford second

2579
01:48:06,669 --> 01:48:05,210
appearance on the Power casts it will

2580
01:48:08,770 --> 01:48:06,679
not be his last he's a lot of fun even

2581
01:48:11,919 --> 01:48:08,780
if you don't agree with him he's very

2582
01:48:13,839 --> 01:48:11,929
easygoing has a sense of humor and he's

2583
01:48:16,209 --> 01:48:13,849
not an ideologue that I could see the

2584
01:48:18,339 --> 01:48:16,219
book is called mysterious New Mexico and

2585
01:48:19,839 --> 01:48:18,349
he blows the whistle on a few of these

2586
01:48:21,310 --> 01:48:19,849
cases and it's very interesting just

2587
01:48:23,200 --> 01:48:21,320
like we've done with crystal skulls

2588
01:48:25,450 --> 01:48:23,210
which is why you'll notice that we only

2589
01:48:26,740 --> 01:48:25,460
have crystal skull people on the power

2590
01:48:29,080 --> 01:48:26,750
cast I think a few years ago we had

2591
01:48:34,629 --> 01:48:29,090
Lloyd Pye who had his own little skull

2592
01:48:35,700 --> 01:48:34,639
there the Storrow and we kind of carved

2593
01:48:37,689 --> 01:48:35,710
him a new one

2594
01:48:38,979 --> 01:48:37,699
yeah we don't do that anymore because

2595
01:48:42,040 --> 01:48:38,989
they won't come on the show

2596
01:48:44,109 --> 01:48:42,050
yeah I'm really interested in you know I

2597
01:48:46,300 --> 01:48:44,119
wasn't able to get all the way through

2598
01:48:48,910 --> 01:48:46,310
the book because I do know quite a bit

2599
01:48:50,649 --> 01:48:48,920
about the chaplet chimayo I figured I'd

2600
01:48:52,359 --> 01:48:50,659
save that one for last but let's talk

2601
01:48:54,790 --> 01:48:52,369
about that that is a very very

2602
01:48:56,169 --> 01:48:54,800
intriguing interest in place and it's

2603
01:48:57,399 --> 01:48:56,179
pretty impressive when you walk in there

2604
01:49:00,609 --> 01:48:57,409
and you see all the crutches and canes

2605
01:49:02,050 --> 01:49:00,619
and everything on the walls in the the

2606
01:49:03,640 --> 01:49:02,060
building there why don't you give our

2607
01:49:05,950 --> 01:49:03,650
listeners a quick thumbnail sketch about

2608
01:49:08,800 --> 01:49:05,960
the the legend of the miraculous mud of

2609
01:49:11,080 --> 01:49:08,810
Chimayo this is one of probably I would

2610
01:49:14,530 --> 01:49:11,090
guess probably the most most famous

2611
01:49:17,350 --> 01:49:14,540
healing site in New Mexico maybe in the

2612
01:49:20,080 --> 01:49:17,360
southwest and how you count it but yeah

2613
01:49:22,899 --> 01:49:20,090
it's it's a it's a chapel of Chimayo

2614
01:49:25,359 --> 01:49:22,909
it's a small town in northern New Mexico

2615
01:49:27,430 --> 01:49:25,369
not far from Santa Fe every year they

2616
01:49:29,439 --> 01:49:27,440
have on Good Friday they have pilgrims

2617
01:49:31,780 --> 01:49:29,449
go there and it's a very involved

2618
01:49:34,870 --> 01:49:31,790
process of people who you know they they

2619
01:49:36,399 --> 01:49:34,880
whip themselves the penitentes on their

2620
01:49:38,080 --> 01:49:36,409
way to do the bill the pilgrimage

2621
01:49:39,760 --> 01:49:38,090
they're on Good Friday and they reenact

2622
01:49:41,770 --> 01:49:39,770
of course the that the passion the

2623
01:49:45,330 --> 01:49:41,780
crucifixion in tens of thousands of

2624
01:49:49,510 --> 01:49:45,340
pilgrims visit the shrine of our Lord of

2625
01:49:51,669 --> 01:49:49,520
esquipulas we put a center I really to

2626
01:49:54,010 --> 01:49:51,679
my own it's a you know it's a beautiful

2627
01:49:55,839 --> 01:49:54,020
little place I've been been there

2628
01:49:57,569 --> 01:49:55,849
several times most recently of course

2629
01:50:00,029 --> 01:49:57,579
for my investigation

2630
01:50:02,250 --> 01:50:00,039
book and one of the one of the stories

2631
01:50:04,859 --> 01:50:02,260
behind it is that it has healing dirt

2632
01:50:06,770 --> 01:50:04,869
and there's a particular place there's I

2633
01:50:09,359 --> 01:50:06,780
should I should add there's there's many

2634
01:50:11,339 --> 01:50:09,369
legends and myths supernatural mist

2635
01:50:13,949 --> 01:50:11,349
surrounding it for example there's a

2636
01:50:16,290 --> 01:50:13,959
whole story about the six foot tall

2637
01:50:19,219 --> 01:50:16,300
cross that when it was originally found

2638
01:50:22,619 --> 01:50:19,229
on that site actually and it was it was

2639
01:50:24,599 --> 01:50:22,629
sometime around 1810 and the story goes

2640
01:50:26,549 --> 01:50:24,609
that people these people were in the

2641
01:50:30,149 --> 01:50:26,559
area and they uncovered this cross and

2642
01:50:32,579 --> 01:50:30,159
they moved it to another area a church

2643
01:50:34,500 --> 01:50:32,589
not far away and the next day it

2644
01:50:36,659 --> 01:50:34,510
appeared back where it was where it was

2645
01:50:38,429 --> 01:50:36,669
found and they they said well this is

2646
01:50:41,129 --> 01:50:38,439
this is bizarre and they moved it again

2647
01:50:42,509 --> 01:50:41,139
and once again overnight it reappeared

2648
01:50:44,759 --> 01:50:42,519
and they finally just said okay well

2649
01:50:46,259 --> 01:50:44,769
clearly this is meant to be here and so

2650
01:50:48,119 --> 01:50:46,269
they built that built the church at that

2651
01:50:49,679 --> 01:50:48,129
place because you know God directed them

2652
01:50:53,669 --> 01:50:49,689
to do that so there's there's a handful

2653
01:50:56,729 --> 01:50:53,679
of sort of interesting New Mexico flavor

2654
01:50:58,259 --> 01:50:56,739
legends about about chimayo but probably

2655
01:50:59,909 --> 01:50:58,269
the most famous one is regarding the

2656
01:51:02,909 --> 01:50:59,919
it's it's miracle dirt and there's a

2657
01:51:05,009 --> 01:51:02,919
there's a side room it's not much bigger

2658
01:51:07,770 --> 01:51:05,019
than you know medium sized closet maybe

2659
01:51:10,349 --> 01:51:07,780
a little bigger and has a there's that's

2660
01:51:13,379 --> 01:51:10,359
called a posse toe it's a small hole in

2661
01:51:16,979 --> 01:51:13,389
the ground and there's sand in it and

2662
01:51:19,739 --> 01:51:16,989
the story goes that sand was supposed to

2663
01:51:21,719 --> 01:51:19,749
stay in some dirt and the the claim is

2664
01:51:25,500 --> 01:51:21,729
that many people have been healed of

2665
01:51:25,889 --> 01:51:25,510
various ailments cancers other things

2666
01:51:28,709 --> 01:51:25,899
like that

2667
01:51:31,679 --> 01:51:28,719
through the miracle dirt and so I had

2668
01:51:33,779 --> 01:51:31,689
heard about this for for course many

2669
01:51:37,560 --> 01:51:33,789
years it's many traditions surrounding

2670
01:51:42,239 --> 01:51:37,570
it and I am I'd never actually done any

2671
01:51:45,569 --> 01:51:42,249
research at Chimayo per se until I was I

2672
01:51:47,609 --> 01:51:45,579
got a call from I did appearance on a

2673
01:51:50,189 --> 01:51:47,619
short-lived TV show on the Oprah network

2674
01:51:52,020 --> 01:51:50,199
called miracle detectives it was on for

2675
01:51:54,839 --> 01:51:52,030
I think a season or two and I was on one

2676
01:51:57,299 --> 01:51:54,849
of the episodes and a guy here in

2677
01:51:59,790 --> 01:51:57,309
Albuquerque Armando Cordoba saw me on

2678
01:52:02,609 --> 01:51:59,800
that TV show and he was investigating a

2679
01:52:04,889 --> 01:52:02,619
weeping icon of Jesus and in a shrine

2680
01:52:06,839 --> 01:52:04,899
outside of Cleveland and I was on there

2681
01:52:07,979 --> 01:52:06,849
and as one of the experts investigators

2682
01:52:10,079 --> 01:52:07,989
and he called me up I said you know I

2683
01:52:11,040 --> 01:52:10,089
saw you on on this miracle detectives TV

2684
01:52:13,770 --> 01:52:11,050
show

2685
01:52:15,030 --> 01:52:13,780
I was healed at chimayo would you you

2686
01:52:17,790 --> 01:52:15,040
know can you put me in touch with the

2687
01:52:20,399 --> 01:52:17,800
the TV producers and I said well I

2688
01:52:22,020 --> 01:52:20,409
actually can't partly because the show

2689
01:52:23,669 --> 01:52:22,030
it actually ended at that point if there

2690
01:52:25,200 --> 01:52:23,679
was there's no really nobody who put him

2691
01:52:27,299 --> 01:52:25,210
in touch with but I said but you know

2692
01:52:28,830 --> 01:52:27,309
I'm still I'm you know I'm fairly local

2693
01:52:31,470 --> 01:52:28,840
and it's I'd like to hear your story

2694
01:52:34,260 --> 01:52:31,480
investigate your story and so that's one

2695
01:52:37,049 --> 01:52:34,270
the one of the main one main sections in

2696
01:52:39,899 --> 01:52:37,059
my article on on chimayo do we have any

2697
01:52:41,520 --> 01:52:39,909
sort of numbers in terms of all those

2698
01:52:46,890 --> 01:52:41,530
that the cripples that are supposedly

2699
01:52:48,839 --> 01:52:46,900
now walking all those crutches I thought

2700
01:52:52,109 --> 01:52:48,849
one of the last photos in the chapter is

2701
01:52:54,270 --> 01:52:52,119
of there's a room as you as you exit

2702
01:52:56,399 --> 01:52:54,280
chimayo there's a room where there's

2703
01:52:58,649 --> 01:52:56,409
just lined with crutches on the walls

2704
01:53:02,580 --> 01:52:58,659
and of course the implication is that

2705
01:53:05,310 --> 01:53:02,590
people walked in limping presumably and

2706
01:53:06,930 --> 01:53:05,320
were healed at the at the at the site

2707
01:53:09,089 --> 01:53:06,940
presumably through the the miracle

2708
01:53:10,229 --> 01:53:09,099
diverted Chimayo and you know left their

2709
01:53:13,290 --> 01:53:10,239
crutches there because they didn't need

2710
01:53:15,569 --> 01:53:13,300
them anymore there's no hard numbers on

2711
01:53:17,280 --> 01:53:15,579
it there's no you know you don't you

2712
01:53:19,859 --> 01:53:17,290
don't need to sign in or anything

2713
01:53:22,439 --> 01:53:19,869
there's no there's no ID checks at

2714
01:53:24,479 --> 01:53:22,449
either end of the of the chapel so

2715
01:53:26,970 --> 01:53:24,489
there's really no way to know exactly

2716
01:53:29,189 --> 01:53:26,980
how many people have been claimed to

2717
01:53:31,770 --> 01:53:29,199
have been healed it's certainly hundreds

2718
01:53:33,899 --> 01:53:31,780
if not thousands over the years some

2719
01:53:35,490 --> 01:53:33,909
stories are more dramatic than others

2720
01:53:38,490 --> 01:53:35,500
there was actually a miracle detective

2721
01:53:41,160 --> 01:53:38,500
TV show about a woman named Desiree

2722
01:53:43,379 --> 01:53:41,170
Martinez and she's included in the in

2723
01:53:45,540 --> 01:53:43,389
the chapter they're talking about I

2724
01:53:51,510 --> 01:53:45,550
think she acts from Colorado for not

2725
01:53:53,700 --> 01:53:51,520
mistaken and she and in in 2011 they did

2726
01:53:55,560 --> 01:53:53,710
a show on that and she visited Chimayo

2727
01:53:58,229 --> 01:53:55,570
and she had been diagnosed with cancer

2728
01:54:00,450 --> 01:53:58,239
at the age of 15 and she believed that

2729
01:54:02,939 --> 01:54:00,460
the miracle dirt at Chimayo had had

2730
01:54:04,830 --> 01:54:02,949
healed her so she was she was one of the

2731
01:54:06,629 --> 01:54:04,840
cases I didn't personally investigate

2732
01:54:08,189 --> 01:54:06,639
her I sort of give the results of the

2733
01:54:10,470 --> 01:54:08,199
miracle detectives investigation and

2734
01:54:12,390 --> 01:54:10,480
then I go on to to the case that I

2735
01:54:15,390 --> 01:54:12,400
personally investigated of Armand de

2736
01:54:16,740 --> 01:54:15,400
Cordoba who claimed he money again he

2737
01:54:19,080 --> 01:54:16,750
came to me and he said look you know I

2738
01:54:20,490 --> 01:54:19,090
was healed by this you know can you can

2739
01:54:22,290 --> 01:54:20,500
you investigate my miracle and I said

2740
01:54:24,630 --> 01:54:22,300
sure you know I'll see what I can do and

2741
01:54:28,590 --> 01:54:24,640
in a nutshell basically he claimed

2742
01:54:30,570 --> 01:54:28,600
that he had in it's important read this

2743
01:54:32,310 --> 01:54:30,580
this has happened fifty years earlier so

2744
01:54:34,050 --> 01:54:32,320
this was not something new so it was it

2745
01:54:37,290 --> 01:54:34,060
was a difficult case to investigate

2746
01:54:38,940 --> 01:54:37,300
because you know this wasn't this didn't

2747
01:54:41,310 --> 01:54:38,950
happen last month of last year this was

2748
01:54:42,870 --> 01:54:41,320
long before I was born and you know the

2749
01:54:45,210 --> 01:54:42,880
records from the time were very

2750
01:54:47,190 --> 01:54:45,220
difficult to find and in fact it being

2751
01:54:49,500 --> 01:54:47,200
impossible to find but he believed that

2752
01:54:53,750 --> 01:54:49,510
he had his claim was that he'd been

2753
01:54:56,540 --> 01:54:53,760
badly burned in a in a fire and that

2754
01:55:00,000 --> 01:54:56,550
just after he gotten out of the military

2755
01:55:03,420 --> 01:55:00,010
fifty-fifty well now 52 years ago and

2756
01:55:06,210 --> 01:55:03,430
that he'd gone to Chimayo and he put

2757
01:55:08,670 --> 01:55:06,220
dirt on his bones on his bandaged wounds

2758
01:55:11,130 --> 01:55:08,680
and they healed miraculously and so that

2759
01:55:14,040 --> 01:55:11,140
was that was a story that I I tried to

2760
01:55:16,020 --> 01:55:14,050
investigate yeah yeah it's it's been

2761
01:55:17,400 --> 01:55:16,030
there that particular Chapel has been

2762
01:55:19,320 --> 01:55:17,410
there for hundreds of years

2763
01:55:21,420 --> 01:55:19,330
yeah court chapel has been on that spot

2764
01:55:24,420 --> 01:55:21,430
I should say and you did mention at the

2765
01:55:26,070 --> 01:55:24,430
top of your explanation about chimayo

2766
01:55:28,230 --> 01:55:26,080
about the penitent days and that is

2767
01:55:30,600 --> 01:55:28,240
considered a penitent a community there

2768
01:55:32,550 --> 01:55:30,610
the penitent days los hermanos de

2769
01:55:34,770 --> 01:55:32,560
penitent a are probably the most

2770
01:55:37,920 --> 01:55:34,780
fundamentalist of all Christians they

2771
01:55:40,430 --> 01:55:37,930
walk naked across the oh and flagellate

2772
01:55:42,870 --> 01:55:40,440
themselves and walk barefoot across

2773
01:55:46,290 --> 01:55:42,880
cactus patches and they're pretty

2774
01:55:49,170 --> 01:55:46,300
hardcore you know I was wondering you

2775
01:55:53,790 --> 01:55:49,180
hit you my oh but just you know a couple

2776
01:55:56,430 --> 01:55:53,800
towns over this is pocky and and or I

2777
01:55:57,900 --> 01:55:56,440
should say Espanola and I didn't see

2778
01:55:59,880 --> 01:55:57,910
anything about old scratch about the

2779
01:56:01,440 --> 01:55:59,890
devil appearing at dances there that's

2780
01:56:05,040 --> 01:56:01,450
right down your alley and there's some

2781
01:56:08,520 --> 01:56:05,050
really well documented reports from the

2782
01:56:11,010 --> 01:56:08,530
90s and the 80s and some pretty

2783
01:56:13,920 --> 01:56:11,020
interesting you know stuff that's been

2784
01:56:16,770 --> 01:56:13,930
written down over the years all the way

2785
01:56:18,300 --> 01:56:16,780
back to the 20s actually appearances the

2786
01:56:19,680 --> 01:56:18,310
devil at the dance I was really why

2787
01:56:22,410 --> 01:56:19,690
didn't you include that that's a real

2788
01:56:24,150 --> 01:56:22,420
popular New Mexico kind of urban legend

2789
01:56:26,310 --> 01:56:24,160
if you will actually I do

2790
01:56:28,890 --> 01:56:26,320
I do make a reference to that in the in

2791
01:56:32,300 --> 01:56:28,900
the light on a chapter I briefly I don't

2792
01:56:34,350 --> 01:56:32,310
go into very much detail there is

2793
01:56:37,170 --> 01:56:34,360
research out there you can find on that

2794
01:56:38,390 --> 01:56:37,180
subject no absolutely and and I but I do

2795
01:56:41,060 --> 01:56:38,400
talk about you know the

2796
01:56:42,229 --> 01:56:41,070
devil peering and the whole there's

2797
01:56:44,750 --> 01:56:42,239
there's of course lots of different

2798
01:56:46,850 --> 01:56:44,760
variations one is that a person shows up

2799
01:56:48,770 --> 01:56:46,860
and and there's a there's a it's an

2800
01:56:51,380 --> 01:56:48,780
old-time saloon and there's there have

2801
01:56:54,350 --> 01:56:51,390
their having a card game and one of the

2802
01:56:55,550 --> 01:56:54,360
persons looks down and a beautiful woman

2803
01:56:57,950 --> 01:56:55,560
comes down and sits down and starts

2804
01:56:59,930 --> 01:56:57,960
playing with them he looks underneath he

2805
01:57:02,419 --> 01:56:59,940
thinks that someone's that the beautiful

2806
01:57:03,800 --> 01:57:02,429
unknown is playing footsie with him he's

2807
01:57:06,770 --> 01:57:03,810
sort of smiles at her and she smiles

2808
01:57:08,570 --> 01:57:06,780
back and then as the game ends she he

2809
01:57:10,910 --> 01:57:08,580
looks underneath the table and he sees a

2810
01:57:13,370 --> 01:57:10,920
cloven hoof right he realizes he's

2811
01:57:15,050 --> 01:57:13,380
playing with Satan himself and he

2812
01:57:16,100 --> 01:57:15,060
gathers his winnings and screws out

2813
01:57:18,770 --> 01:57:16,110
never to be seen again

2814
01:57:20,810 --> 01:57:18,780
actually Satan was really a Al Pacino in

2815
01:57:22,580 --> 01:57:20,820
disguise I want everyone to understand

2816
01:57:24,890 --> 01:57:22,590
that we have been Radford the book this

2817
01:57:26,450 --> 01:57:24,900
mysterious New Mexico and we've got

2818
01:57:28,610 --> 01:57:26,460
questions from listeners and we'll start

2819
01:57:35,740 --> 01:57:28,620
to ask them in our next segment with

2820
01:57:42,350 --> 01:57:38,870
neighbors are you tired of dealing with

2821
01:57:45,530 --> 01:57:42,360
a slow web hosting provider well check

2822
01:57:48,530 --> 01:57:45,540
out a two hosting and they're screaming

2823
01:57:51,800 --> 01:57:48,540
fast Swift server platform they even

2824
01:57:54,070 --> 01:57:51,810
have SSDs that load pages three hundred

2825
01:57:57,290 --> 01:57:54,080
percent faster than the competition

2826
01:58:00,169 --> 01:57:57,300
ready to give your sign a speed boost

2827
01:58:02,630 --> 01:58:00,179
well tell you what neighbors head on

2828
01:58:06,770 --> 01:58:02,640
over to a two hosting.com

2829
01:58:09,320 --> 01:58:06,780
that's a two that's number two a to

2830
01:58:11,990 --> 01:58:09,330
hosting.com check out their prime

2831
01:58:14,330 --> 01:58:12,000
hosting account and get this neighbors

2832
01:58:17,600 --> 01:58:14,340
they're even giving you an exclusive

2833
01:58:20,330 --> 01:58:17,610
twenty five percent off discount for all

2834
01:58:22,880 --> 01:58:20,340
our listeners twenty five percent

2835
01:58:27,860 --> 01:58:22,890
and remember their guru crew support

2836
01:58:30,709 --> 01:58:27,870
team is standing by 24/7 365 days a year

2837
01:58:33,560 --> 01:58:30,719
to answer any of your questions now to

2838
01:58:36,320 --> 01:58:33,570
get the discount use the coupon code Jen

2839
01:58:38,450 --> 01:58:36,330
when you check out making the right

2840
01:58:40,189 --> 01:58:38,460
decisions is a challenge to investors

2841
01:58:41,930 --> 01:58:40,199
are we going to see economic growth

2842
01:58:44,060 --> 01:58:41,940
slide into a recession or at worst

2843
01:58:46,189 --> 01:58:44,070
depression hi Ted Anderson fremitus

2844
01:58:48,439 --> 01:58:46,199
resources we all know when a company

2845
01:58:50,120 --> 01:58:48,449
actually responsibly divesting ourselves

2846
01:58:52,010 --> 01:58:50,130
and a move towards safety is prudent

2847
01:58:54,110 --> 01:58:52,020
when the market becomes volatile you

2848
01:58:55,270 --> 01:58:54,120
Treasuries are a safe haven but what do

2849
01:58:57,830 --> 01:58:55,280
you do when the US government

2850
01:58:59,870 --> 01:58:57,840
overextends itself and spends beyond its

2851
01:59:02,030 --> 01:58:59,880
means many investors are turning toward

2852
01:59:04,190 --> 01:59:02,040
gold is a common-sense alternative to

2853
01:59:05,990 --> 01:59:04,200
traditional paper investments Midas

2854
01:59:07,700 --> 01:59:06,000
resources has put together a powerful

2855
01:59:10,760 --> 01:59:07,710
book titled ten reasons to own gold

2856
01:59:12,620 --> 01:59:10,770
discussing cost benefits risks featuring

2857
01:59:14,720 --> 01:59:12,630
full-color illustrations weights and

2858
01:59:49,810 --> 01:59:14,730
measures the book is free and can be

2859
01:59:56,150 --> 01:59:53,390
has the best prices on storable food at

2860
01:59:58,280 --> 01:59:56,160
non-gmo seeds water filtration devices

2861
02:00:00,980 --> 01:59:58,290
home canning equipment survival and

2862
02:00:03,770 --> 02:00:00,990
self-reliance books and more my Patriot

2863
02:00:05,690 --> 02:00:03,780
supply.com has old-fashioned values and

2864
02:00:07,400 --> 02:00:05,700
the absolute best customer service in

2865
02:00:07,700 --> 02:00:07,410
the industry look for the deal of the

2866
02:00:10,160 --> 02:00:07,710
day

2867
02:00:11,930 --> 02:00:10,170
unique affordable survival supplies that

2868
02:00:13,970 --> 02:00:11,940
fit anyone's budget yet same-day

2869
02:00:16,730 --> 02:00:13,980
shipping on all orders and free shipping

2870
02:00:19,430 --> 02:00:16,740
on orders over $49 call eight six six

2871
02:00:22,280 --> 02:00:19,440
two two nine zero nine two seven eight

2872
02:00:24,560 --> 02:00:22,290
six six two two nine zero nine two seven

2873
02:00:27,440 --> 02:00:24,570
or visit my Patriot supply.com

2874
02:00:29,870 --> 02:00:27,450
for emergency preparedness self-reliance

2875
02:00:32,210 --> 02:00:29,880
and food independence shop with a name

2876
02:00:34,340 --> 02:00:32,220
you know and a name you can trust before

2877
02:00:36,970 --> 02:00:34,350
it's time to survive it's time to

2878
02:00:40,100 --> 02:00:36,980
prepare my Patriot supply.com

2879
02:00:42,200 --> 02:00:40,110
at 30-day food supply dot-com you can

2880
02:00:44,570 --> 02:00:42,210
now purchase a one-of-a-kind product not

2881
02:00:47,300 --> 02:00:44,580
available anywhere else a meatless

2882
02:00:49,430 --> 02:00:47,310
burger dry mix in four delicious flavors

2883
02:00:51,950 --> 02:00:49,440
with our new oregon trail foods vegan

2884
02:00:53,960 --> 02:00:51,960
burgers all you do is add water and fry

2885
02:00:55,910 --> 02:00:53,970
they need no refrigeration they're

2886
02:00:58,010 --> 02:00:55,920
packaged in mylar bags with an oxygen

2887
02:00:58,910 --> 02:00:58,020
absorber for a long shelf-life they're

2888
02:01:00,890 --> 02:00:58,920
non-gmo

2889
02:01:02,960 --> 02:01:00,900
they're gluten soy not in chemical free

2890
02:01:04,910 --> 02:01:02,970
but they're loaded with flavor and a

2891
02:01:05,810 --> 02:01:04,920
good source of carbs and protein yet low

2892
02:01:07,730 --> 02:01:05,820
in sodium

2893
02:01:10,460 --> 02:01:07,740
flavors include Italian spicy Mexican

2894
02:01:13,340 --> 02:01:10,470
six vegetable and black bean olive go-to

2895
02:01:16,160 --> 02:01:13,350
30-day food supply calm or call five

2896
02:01:19,130 --> 02:01:16,170
four one two two nine zero zero one zero

2897
02:01:20,840 --> 02:01:19,140
and order today eat them every day take

2898
02:01:23,540 --> 02:01:20,850
them camping or save them for an

2899
02:01:25,610 --> 02:01:23,550
emergency check them out at 30-day food

2900
02:01:28,310 --> 02:01:25,620
supply calm and click on the vegan

2901
02:01:30,320 --> 02:01:28,320
burger icon that's 30 day food supply

2902
02:01:32,720 --> 02:01:30,330
calm where all of our products are

2903
02:01:40,220 --> 02:01:32,730
produced in Oregon by Oregon Trail foods

2904
02:01:41,150 --> 02:01:40,230
30-day food supply calm we'd like to

2905
02:01:43,100 --> 02:01:41,160
hear from you

2906
02:01:45,890 --> 02:01:43,110
if you have a comment or question about

2907
02:01:49,310 --> 02:01:45,900
the para cast sent it to muse

2908
02:01:52,190 --> 02:01:49,320
at the para cast com that's news at the

2909
02:01:55,160 --> 02:01:52,200
para cast calm and don't forget to visit

2910
02:02:00,260 --> 02:01:55,170
our famous para cast community forums at

2911
02:02:02,150 --> 02:02:00,270
forum dot the para cast calm with gene

2912
02:02:04,400 --> 02:02:02,160
and Kristen the power cast Ben Radford

2913
02:02:06,020 --> 02:02:04,410
is author of mysterious New Mexico he's

2914
02:02:08,180 --> 02:02:06,030
not some mysterious himself he's a

2915
02:02:10,760 --> 02:02:08,190
pretty down-to-earth guy and we've got

2916
02:02:12,350 --> 02:02:10,770
Chris O'Brien who is now going to look

2917
02:02:14,840 --> 02:02:12,360
at all those questions our listeners

2918
02:02:18,290 --> 02:02:14,850
have asked at forum doctor para cast

2919
02:02:20,810 --> 02:02:18,300
calm and pick out a few choice ones in

2920
02:02:23,570 --> 02:02:20,820
there are some questions here in fact we

2921
02:02:26,360 --> 02:02:23,580
have a sign up at forum dr. Perik a

2922
02:02:28,940 --> 02:02:26,370
CENTCOM who was made aware of your your

2923
02:02:30,770 --> 02:02:28,950
upcoming show here at the para cast and

2924
02:02:32,450 --> 02:02:30,780
they signed up just just to post a

2925
02:02:34,700 --> 02:02:32,460
question for you well cool which is

2926
02:02:37,940 --> 02:02:34,710
which is neat but first I'm gonna go to

2927
02:02:40,790 --> 02:02:37,950
our one of our very very diligent

2928
02:02:44,150 --> 02:02:40,800
posters he's up above the 2000 mark now

2929
02:02:46,640 --> 02:02:44,160
burnt State at he posted this at our

2930
02:02:48,560 --> 02:02:46,650
question thread on forum dr. Peric Escom

2931
02:02:51,080 --> 02:02:48,570
he's got a number of interesting

2932
02:02:53,180 --> 02:02:51,090
questions but I'm gonna jump down in all

2933
02:02:55,310 --> 02:02:53,190
your personal research Ben has there

2934
02:02:57,170 --> 02:02:55,320
ever been a paranormal mystery that you

2935
02:03:03,230 --> 02:02:57,180
could not use science to dismiss or

2936
02:03:04,820 --> 02:03:03,240
completely explain ah not so far I sort

2937
02:03:06,790 --> 02:03:04,830
of touched on this earlier you know the

2938
02:03:09,830 --> 02:03:06,800
the mysteries that I investigate are

2939
02:03:11,780 --> 02:03:09,840
self selected in that not that I know

2940
02:03:13,370 --> 02:03:11,790
they're you think that they're easy to

2941
02:03:14,900 --> 02:03:13,380
solve because many of the investigations

2942
02:03:17,090 --> 02:03:14,910
I tackle are very difficult to solve

2943
02:03:19,109 --> 02:03:17,100
Chupacabra being one case and others

2944
02:03:21,119 --> 02:03:19,119
that are you know in this new book

2945
02:03:22,649 --> 02:03:21,129
would say the the closest thing that I

2946
02:03:24,810 --> 02:03:22,659
can think of I mean there's certainly

2947
02:03:26,699 --> 02:03:24,820
been in cases for example in my book

2948
02:03:28,649 --> 02:03:26,709
scientific param vestigation I have a

2949
02:03:30,149 --> 02:03:28,659
have a chapter on a haunted house I

2950
02:03:33,270 --> 02:03:30,159
investigated outside the Buffalo New

2951
02:03:34,409 --> 02:03:33,280
York and that was a very complex case I

2952
02:03:36,989 --> 02:03:34,419
won't go into the whole thing here but

2953
02:03:39,989 --> 02:03:36,999
basically one of the main claims was

2954
02:03:41,729 --> 02:03:39,999
that the one of there was it was a

2955
02:03:43,529 --> 02:03:41,739
mother and a father and a young young

2956
02:03:46,290 --> 02:03:43,539
girl I think she was about six or seven

2957
02:03:48,270 --> 02:03:46,300
and he believed that a ghost had

2958
02:03:50,549 --> 02:03:48,280
actually attacked him it was it was

2959
02:03:51,899 --> 02:03:50,559
kicking him and I hadn't I interviewed

2960
02:03:53,819 --> 02:03:51,909
many people who seen ghosts and

2961
02:03:55,379 --> 02:03:53,829
experienced unusual things but he was

2962
02:03:57,509 --> 02:03:55,389
the very first person that I had ever

2963
02:04:00,540 --> 02:03:57,519
spoken to one to one who told me

2964
02:04:02,699 --> 02:04:00,550
flat-out he says a ghost attacked me so

2965
02:04:05,129 --> 02:04:02,709
that was kind of an unusual thing so you

2966
02:04:07,409 --> 02:04:05,139
know he ended up the in a nutshell he

2967
02:04:09,839 --> 02:04:07,419
claimed that a ghost was was kicking him

2968
02:04:12,419 --> 02:04:09,849
as he slept at night as he was going to

2969
02:04:13,739 --> 02:04:12,429
sleep and I ended up solving the case it

2970
02:04:15,389 --> 02:04:13,749
turned out to be that it was it was

2971
02:04:17,250 --> 02:04:15,399
actually restless leg syndrome he was

2972
02:04:19,500 --> 02:04:17,260
sleeping on it on us he was a big guy he

2973
02:04:21,089 --> 02:04:19,510
was the auto worker and he was sleeping

2974
02:04:23,669 --> 02:04:21,099
alone because he had sleep apnea and he

2975
02:04:25,709 --> 02:04:23,679
was on his own little cot bed and as he

2976
02:04:26,969 --> 02:04:25,719
was going to sleep his leg twitch and it

2977
02:04:29,100 --> 02:04:26,979
would wake him up and he interpreted

2978
02:04:30,689 --> 02:04:29,110
because he's a ghost in the house he

2979
02:04:32,069 --> 02:04:30,699
interpreted it as a ghost kicking him

2980
02:04:34,290 --> 02:04:32,079
and and he was too serious

2981
02:04:36,509 --> 02:04:34,300
it was not a joke he was dead serious

2982
02:04:37,729 --> 02:04:36,519
about this and well I I'm later but the

2983
02:04:39,810 --> 02:04:37,739
reason I bring this up is because

2984
02:04:42,089 --> 02:04:39,820
because there were lots of claims about

2985
02:04:43,830 --> 02:04:42,099
that case there were strange that was

2986
02:04:46,020 --> 02:04:43,840
the that was the the holdout that was

2987
02:04:48,000 --> 02:04:46,030
the one that I could not explain for

2988
02:04:50,189 --> 02:04:48,010
weeks I was like I can't figure this out

2989
02:04:52,080 --> 02:04:50,199
this is bizarre until I finally solved

2990
02:04:54,750 --> 02:04:52,090
it oh this is all fits together this is

2991
02:04:56,729 --> 02:04:54,760
what that was so you know is that so

2992
02:04:59,549 --> 02:04:56,739
there are certainly cases where parts of

2993
02:05:01,560 --> 02:04:59,559
a mystery are very difficult to solve

2994
02:05:04,379 --> 02:05:01,570
but in the end I've been able to solve

2995
02:05:05,819 --> 02:05:04,389
them I think that the the other real

2996
02:05:07,589 --> 02:05:05,829
question is you know if someone says

2997
02:05:09,419 --> 02:05:07,599
well is there anything you think can't

2998
02:05:11,100 --> 02:05:09,429
be explained by science and I'm

2999
02:05:13,049 --> 02:05:11,110
generally the position that pretty much

3000
02:05:15,810 --> 02:05:13,059
everything can be explained through

3001
02:05:16,500 --> 02:05:15,820
science if it's part of the natural

3002
02:05:19,589 --> 02:05:16,510
world

3003
02:05:21,750 --> 02:05:19,599
same thing with ghosts so you know I

3004
02:05:24,149 --> 02:05:21,760
would say the of everything in the world

3005
02:05:25,859 --> 02:05:24,159
I would say maybe intuition I think

3006
02:05:28,229 --> 02:05:25,869
maybe intuition might be the closest to

3007
02:05:30,270 --> 02:05:28,239
some sort of unusual paranormal and I

3008
02:05:32,560 --> 02:05:30,280
don't mean intuition in that some sort

3009
02:05:35,230 --> 02:05:32,570
of ESP or sixth sense but in a more

3010
02:05:36,940 --> 02:05:35,240
psychological realm in which we're

3011
02:05:38,620 --> 02:05:36,950
talking about something where we know

3012
02:05:40,450 --> 02:05:38,630
something without knowing how we know it

3013
02:05:42,160 --> 02:05:40,460
and we're picking up cues from the right

3014
02:05:43,150 --> 02:05:42,170
or the feeling of somebody's staring at

3015
02:05:44,950 --> 02:05:43,160
you and then you turn around and

3016
02:05:46,060 --> 02:05:44,960
somebody is there now yeah right exactly

3017
02:05:49,060 --> 02:05:46,070
so and then you sort of get into

3018
02:05:51,580 --> 02:05:49,070
confirmation bias yeah well yeah that's

3019
02:05:55,060 --> 02:05:51,590
a bad example but we're thinking about

3020
02:05:56,920 --> 02:05:55,070
somebody really hard and then they call

3021
02:05:57,640 --> 02:05:56,930
you on the phone if it's not a

3022
02:05:59,470 --> 02:05:57,650
coincidence

3023
02:06:01,300 --> 02:05:59,480
there may be something there well here's

3024
02:06:03,460 --> 02:06:01,310
another question this really kind of

3025
02:06:06,550 --> 02:06:03,470
gets to the heart of why people with

3026
02:06:09,010 --> 02:06:06,560
open minds that that really enjoy these

3027
02:06:10,810 --> 02:06:09,020
paranormal subjects are can get really

3028
02:06:12,580 --> 02:06:10,820
bent out of shape at at the tone

3029
02:06:14,860 --> 02:06:12,590
sometimes that the skeptical community

3030
02:06:17,800 --> 02:06:14,870
uses and Byrne state wants to know if

3031
02:06:20,050 --> 02:06:17,810
you think that skepticism can become too

3032
02:06:22,120 --> 02:06:20,060
rabid as seen in the absolute relish it

3033
02:06:23,800 --> 02:06:22,130
seems to take and mocking anyone who

3034
02:06:25,690 --> 02:06:23,810
takes the UFO phenomenon seriously

3035
02:06:27,520 --> 02:06:25,700
including those who wish to apply

3036
02:06:29,440 --> 02:06:27,530
science to the problem and he gives the

3037
02:06:31,510 --> 02:06:29,450
example of Philip Glass persistently

3038
02:06:34,060 --> 02:06:31,520
hounding and harassing dr. James

3039
02:06:36,550 --> 02:06:34,070
McDonald and he says such activities

3040
02:06:38,770 --> 02:06:36,560
appear to continue to this day in the

3041
02:06:41,410 --> 02:06:38,780
sarcastic tone that your skeptical

3042
02:06:44,170 --> 02:06:41,420
Inquirer applies to all things UFO in

3043
02:06:45,340 --> 02:06:44,180
nature is this a healthy approach and is

3044
02:06:48,130 --> 02:06:45,350
it consistent with choose these

3045
02:06:50,260 --> 02:06:48,140
foundational principles and is etic

3046
02:06:51,730 --> 02:06:50,270
approach to unique phenomenon good

3047
02:06:53,760 --> 02:06:51,740
question yeah that is a good question

3048
02:06:57,670 --> 02:06:53,770
that there's there's a little bit of a

3049
02:07:00,010 --> 02:06:57,680
faulty premise there in that there's not

3050
02:07:02,140 --> 02:07:00,020
a monolithic homogenous skeptical

3051
02:07:04,360 --> 02:07:02,150
community there just isn't it just as

3052
02:07:07,540 --> 02:07:04,370
there's not one monolithic homogenous

3053
02:07:09,310 --> 02:07:07,550
paranormal community or UFO believer

3054
02:07:10,570 --> 02:07:09,320
commune wherever else there's all sorts

3055
02:07:12,460 --> 02:07:10,580
of different people there are people who

3056
02:07:14,650 --> 02:07:12,470
are you know hardcore believers that

3057
02:07:16,420 --> 02:07:14,660
alien abducted abductions are happening

3058
02:07:18,340 --> 02:07:16,430
every second of every day other people

3059
02:07:19,630 --> 02:07:18,350
who think that a lot of it's you know BS

3060
02:07:21,820 --> 02:07:19,640
but there are a couple things that are

3061
02:07:24,160 --> 02:07:21,830
true they stick their belief on the you

3062
02:07:26,260 --> 02:07:24,170
know Betty Barney Hills case we're out

3063
02:07:29,200 --> 02:07:26,270
and so it's a little bit of a fallacy to

3064
02:07:30,910 --> 02:07:29,210
say that skeptics are X because epics

3065
02:07:32,980 --> 02:07:30,920
are not X that you will always have

3066
02:07:35,230 --> 02:07:32,990
individual skeptics within any community

3067
02:07:37,750 --> 02:07:35,240
just as you have individual believers or

3068
02:07:40,450 --> 02:07:37,760
you know take your pick anything else

3069
02:07:41,980 --> 02:07:40,460
engineers take you know lawyers there

3070
02:07:43,450 --> 02:07:41,990
are good lawyers and their shyster

3071
02:07:45,670 --> 02:07:43,460
lawyers there are good doctors and their

3072
02:07:46,330 --> 02:07:45,680
shyster doctors they're not all out you

3073
02:07:48,070 --> 02:07:46,340
know are you

3074
02:07:49,600 --> 02:07:48,080
are you being an apologist for the ones

3075
02:07:51,129 --> 02:07:49,610
that are too rabid or are you saying

3076
02:07:52,540 --> 02:07:51,139
that they're out of line I know I'm

3077
02:07:56,200 --> 02:07:52,550
saying that they're out of line I'm

3078
02:07:58,600 --> 02:07:56,210
saying that okay yeah could really get

3079
02:08:00,580 --> 02:07:58,610
out of line well you really I'll give an

3080
02:08:02,169 --> 02:08:00,590
example in one of my favorite books of

3081
02:08:03,700 --> 02:08:02,179
all time there's written by Carl Sagan

3082
02:08:06,339 --> 02:08:03,710
and he wrote a book called the demon

3083
02:08:09,070 --> 02:08:06,349
haunted world yeah it's a brilliant book

3084
02:08:10,600 --> 02:08:09,080
and I revere Carl sake and I met him

3085
02:08:13,750 --> 02:08:10,610
briefly and he was just a wonderful

3086
02:08:15,580 --> 02:08:13,760
generous man and in that book if you

3087
02:08:18,700 --> 02:08:15,590
read it he actually calls out James

3088
02:08:20,770 --> 02:08:18,710
Randi another one of my heroes who you

3089
02:08:22,479 --> 02:08:20,780
know he has his faults and in in Carl

3090
02:08:25,689 --> 02:08:22,489
Sagan's book is as you know Randy can be

3091
02:08:27,820 --> 02:08:25,699
abrasive he can be rude I don't remember

3092
02:08:30,250 --> 02:08:27,830
the exact quote but he he says look you

3093
02:08:32,770 --> 02:08:30,260
know this is this isn't helpful so I

3094
02:08:33,910 --> 02:08:32,780
guess the the real issue is that in any

3095
02:08:35,589 --> 02:08:33,920
community you're gonna have people who

3096
02:08:36,910 --> 02:08:35,599
are more open-minded about in other

3097
02:08:39,310 --> 02:08:36,920
people who are more debunking and so you

3098
02:08:40,839 --> 02:08:39,320
have people like so for example you have

3099
02:08:44,080 --> 02:08:40,849
Penn & Teller's show called

3100
02:08:47,680 --> 02:08:44,090
well BS that's the name of the show and

3101
02:08:49,570 --> 02:08:47,690
in that in their show they you know they

3102
02:08:52,330 --> 02:08:49,580
they tackle all sorts of paranormal you

3103
02:08:54,669 --> 02:08:52,340
know everything from UFO claims to the

3104
02:08:56,260 --> 02:08:54,679
homeopathy this that any other and their

3105
02:08:58,510 --> 02:08:56,270
style is very different from mine I

3106
02:08:59,950 --> 02:08:58,520
that's that's their thing that's that's

3107
02:09:02,020 --> 02:08:59,960
fine same thing with the South Park guys

3108
02:09:04,689 --> 02:09:02,030
they make fun of all sorts of things

3109
02:09:07,149 --> 02:09:04,699
that I don't make fun of because I part

3110
02:09:08,560 --> 02:09:07,159
of the way that I personally do it is I

3111
02:09:12,040 --> 02:09:08,570
have a have a background in psychology

3112
02:09:13,839 --> 02:09:12,050
and and I I am very sympathetic to

3113
02:09:15,430 --> 02:09:13,849
people who claim to have experiences or

3114
02:09:17,169 --> 02:09:15,440
they sit they think they saw a ghost

3115
02:09:19,390 --> 02:09:17,179
they think it's a lake monster UFO where

3116
02:09:21,790 --> 02:09:19,400
else and my assumption is not that

3117
02:09:23,530 --> 02:09:21,800
they're lying to me my assumption and my

3118
02:09:25,810 --> 02:09:23,540
experience is that most people who claim

3119
02:09:27,850 --> 02:09:25,820
to have these experiences are sincere

3120
02:09:29,620 --> 02:09:27,860
they're they're not crazy they're not

3121
02:09:31,540 --> 02:09:29,630
stupid they're not bad people they've

3122
02:09:33,700 --> 02:09:31,550
truly had some experience they can't

3123
02:09:35,560 --> 02:09:33,710
explain and what I try to do as

3124
02:09:37,750 --> 02:09:35,570
investigators figure out what is that

3125
02:09:39,879 --> 02:09:37,760
experience if that experience truly is a

3126
02:09:42,040 --> 02:09:39,889
ghost if that experience truly is

3127
02:09:43,750 --> 02:09:42,050
psychic powers or whatever else that's

3128
02:09:45,640 --> 02:09:43,760
great let's figure this out let's let's

3129
02:09:47,439 --> 02:09:45,650
let's bring science to it but if that

3130
02:09:49,600 --> 02:09:47,449
experience is not actually a ghost or

3131
02:09:51,459 --> 02:09:49,610
it's plausibly you know explained by

3132
02:09:55,060 --> 02:09:51,469
some other mundane phenomena then we

3133
02:09:56,320 --> 02:09:55,070
need to go with that and so so I'm just

3134
02:09:58,180 --> 02:09:56,330
basically trying to explain that that

3135
02:10:00,250 --> 02:09:58,190
yes there there certainly are skeptics

3136
02:10:02,140 --> 02:10:00,260
who are nasty and brash

3137
02:10:03,580 --> 02:10:02,150
and rude and and don't know their stuff

3138
02:10:05,740 --> 02:10:03,590
and there's lots of believers that are

3139
02:10:08,440 --> 02:10:05,750
nasty and brash and rude and I don't I

3140
02:10:10,540 --> 02:10:08,450
think there's a lot more of the latter

3141
02:10:12,490 --> 02:10:10,550
as opposed to the former let's do our

3142
02:10:15,130 --> 02:10:12,500
break here guys the book is mysterious

3143
02:10:21,290 --> 02:10:15,140
New Mexico Ben Radford joins us with

3144
02:10:21,300 --> 02:10:25,810
[Music]

3145
02:10:31,010 --> 02:10:29,150
GCN proudly sponsored by unseen now calm

3146
02:10:35,380 --> 02:10:31,020
find out how to stop big brother and his

3147
02:10:37,700 --> 02:10:35,390
tracks at unseen now calm this is GC n

3148
02:10:40,040 --> 02:10:37,710
graphic converter is the image

3149
02:10:42,950 --> 02:10:40,050
manipulation tool for the rest of us it

3150
02:10:45,080 --> 02:10:42,960
does not use any database you get full

3151
02:10:47,540 --> 02:10:45,090
control of all your files want to view

3152
02:10:50,090 --> 02:10:47,550
the images of a folder drag it into

3153
02:10:52,790 --> 02:10:50,100
graphic converter and a powerful browser

3154
02:10:54,890 --> 02:10:52,800
opens up to show your image files you

3155
02:10:57,170 --> 02:10:54,900
could use it for slideshows you could

3156
02:10:59,510 --> 02:10:57,180
use it to import images from digital

3157
02:11:01,490 --> 02:10:59,520
cameras or from scanners need to do some

3158
02:11:04,010 --> 02:11:01,500
image editing you can do that too and

3159
02:11:06,320 --> 02:11:04,020
graphic converter also print catalogs

3160
02:11:08,510 --> 02:11:06,330
convert from so many formats

3161
02:11:11,150 --> 02:11:08,520
I can't even list them download now to

3162
02:11:14,060 --> 02:11:11,160
see if graphic converter is good for you

3163
02:11:16,310 --> 02:11:14,070
like one and a half million other users

3164
02:11:18,680 --> 02:11:16,320
guess what you could save money when you

3165
02:11:21,560 --> 02:11:18,690
buy graphic converter use the coupon

3166
02:11:23,960 --> 02:11:21,570
code night owl use the coupon code night

3167
02:11:27,280 --> 02:11:23,970
how to get a special price for graphic

3168
02:11:30,320 --> 02:11:27,290
converter go to Lemke soft calm Nets le

3169
02:11:38,060 --> 02:11:30,330
MK e soft calm

3170
02:11:39,950 --> 02:11:38,070
Lemke soft calm LEM ke soft calm hi this

3171
02:11:41,900 --> 02:11:39,960
is Steve Sanchez and based on a recent

3172
02:11:44,060 --> 02:11:41,910
study it was found that 57 million

3173
02:11:46,790 --> 02:11:44,070
Americans had legal issues over the last

3174
02:11:48,740 --> 02:11:46,800
12 months but only 60% of those studied

3175
02:11:51,350 --> 02:11:48,750
sought out the services of a lawyer who

3176
02:11:53,030 --> 02:11:51,360
I and a nutshell affordability while my

3177
02:11:55,310 --> 02:11:53,040
friends at Legal Shield have created a

3178
02:11:56,960 --> 02:11:55,320
solution that can help you not if but

3179
02:11:58,880 --> 02:11:56,970
when you need an attorney for as little

3180
02:12:00,560 --> 02:11:58,890
as seventeen dollars per month Legal

3181
02:12:02,600 --> 02:12:00,570
Shield will provide you unlimited access

3182
02:12:04,400 --> 02:12:02,610
to qualified attorneys at an

3183
02:12:06,740 --> 02:12:04,410
accomplished law firm for advice and

3184
02:12:09,320 --> 02:12:06,750
counsel on legal issues no matter how

3185
02:12:11,720 --> 02:12:09,330
serious or trivial for over 40 years and

3186
02:12:13,640 --> 02:12:11,730
with 1.4 million families across North

3187
02:12:16,130 --> 02:12:13,650
America the Legal Shield can help you

3188
02:12:17,780 --> 02:12:16,140
the loyal GCN listener representatives

3189
02:12:20,660 --> 02:12:17,790
are standing by now to answer your

3190
02:12:23,570 --> 02:12:20,670
question so call them now at one eight

3191
02:12:26,570 --> 02:12:23,580
five five three four zero save that's

3192
02:12:29,300 --> 02:12:26,580
one eight five five three four zero

3193
02:12:31,820 --> 02:12:29,310
seven two eight three or visit them at

3194
02:12:38,160 --> 02:12:31,830
LS protection calm

3195
02:12:40,919 --> 02:12:38,170
vary from case to case

3196
02:12:42,810 --> 02:12:40,929
this alert just came in this special

3197
02:12:45,000 --> 02:12:42,820
announcement is for business owners and

3198
02:12:47,209 --> 02:12:45,010
leaders of organizations who've been

3199
02:12:49,770 --> 02:12:47,219
waiting for the right time to build

3200
02:12:51,689 --> 02:12:49,780
general steel has made it impossible to

3201
02:12:53,910 --> 02:12:51,699
wait any longer with rock-bottom prices

3202
02:12:56,189 --> 02:12:53,920
that could save you thousands that's

3203
02:12:58,350 --> 02:12:56,199
right general steel America's leader in

3204
02:13:00,240 --> 02:12:58,360
pre engineered structures is offering

3205
02:13:02,669 --> 02:13:00,250
buildings at prices you will never see

3206
02:13:05,790 --> 02:13:02,679
again don't miss these prices of 50 by

3207
02:13:08,220 --> 02:13:05,800
100 for $35,000 you heard right that's

3208
02:13:09,990 --> 02:13:08,230
5000 square feet for $35,000

3209
02:13:12,240 --> 02:13:10,000
manufacturers if you need a larger

3210
02:13:13,590 --> 02:13:12,250
building try a 100 by 100 commercial

3211
02:13:15,540 --> 02:13:13,600
building for a hundred and twenty nine

3212
02:13:17,910 --> 02:13:15,550
thousand you can't afford to rent with

3213
02:13:19,470 --> 02:13:17,920
these prices imagine a 70 by 100 foot

3214
02:13:21,270 --> 02:13:19,480
church building for under sixty nine

3215
02:13:23,220 --> 02:13:21,280
thousand dollars with the economy

3216
02:13:25,350 --> 02:13:23,230
improving and interest rates still at

3217
02:13:29,640 --> 02:13:25,360
historic lows you can't afford to wait

3218
02:13:33,750 --> 02:13:29,650
so call 866 91 steel lock in your price

3219
02:13:37,979 --> 02:13:33,760
now call 866 91 steel that's eight six

3220
02:13:40,080 --> 02:13:37,989
six nine one seven eighty 335 for over

3221
02:13:42,660 --> 02:13:40,090
five years you've been hearing about the

3222
02:13:45,150 --> 02:13:42,670
Berkey guy so you may know a few things

3223
02:13:46,979 --> 02:13:45,160
about him for example you are well aware

3224
02:13:48,900 --> 02:13:46,989
of the superior quality and

3225
02:13:51,240 --> 02:13:48,910
effectiveness of berkey water filters

3226
02:13:53,310 --> 02:13:51,250
and accessories but did you know the

3227
02:13:55,169 --> 02:13:53,320
Burr Keys have had independent lab tests

3228
02:13:57,419 --> 02:13:55,179
done to prove just how effective they

3229
02:14:00,450 --> 02:13:57,429
are it's true and he can email you the

3230
02:14:02,520 --> 02:14:00,460
test results just visit go Berkey com

3231
02:14:04,410 --> 02:14:02,530
you may also know that the Berkey guy

3232
02:14:06,630 --> 02:14:04,420
has helped tens of thousands of people

3233
02:14:09,150 --> 02:14:06,640
get better prepared now here's something

3234
02:14:11,610 --> 02:14:09,160
you may not know go Berkey comm has

3235
02:14:13,830 --> 02:14:11,620
amazing specials and deals all the time

3236
02:14:16,200 --> 02:14:13,840
on a wide variety of survival and

3237
02:14:18,840 --> 02:14:16,210
preparedness products most ready to ship

3238
02:14:21,330 --> 02:14:18,850
same-day visit the Berkey guy and go

3239
02:14:23,910 --> 02:14:21,340
Berkey calm and be sure to click the red

3240
02:14:26,189 --> 02:14:23,920
products on sale now button you can

3241
02:14:28,110 --> 02:14:26,199
always call toll-free eight seven seven

3242
02:14:30,479 --> 02:14:28,120
eight eight six three six five three

3243
02:14:33,750 --> 02:14:30,489
again that's eight seven seven eight

3244
02:14:38,510 --> 02:14:33,760
eight six three six five three goldberg

3245
02:14:45,890 --> 02:14:42,640
[Music]

3246
02:14:49,120 --> 02:14:45,900
this is 37 the author of us on this

3247
02:14:53,630 --> 02:14:49,130
reason you're listening to the paragraph

3248
02:14:55,550 --> 02:14:53,640
a quick reminder if you can want to get

3249
02:14:58,220 --> 02:14:55,560
a free copy of secrets of the mysterious

3250
02:15:01,370 --> 02:14:58,230
valley by Chris O'Brien this is all you

3251
02:15:03,890 --> 02:15:01,380
have to do go to the para cast com the

3252
02:15:06,200 --> 02:15:03,900
power cast com sign up for our weekly

3253
02:15:07,850 --> 02:15:06,210
newsletter so we get your email address

3254
02:15:09,080 --> 02:15:07,860
we're not gonna send you anything but a

3255
02:15:11,180 --> 02:15:09,090
newsletter we're not going to send you

3256
02:15:13,490 --> 02:15:11,190
all sorts of weird offers or stuff like

3257
02:15:16,520 --> 02:15:13,500
that and when you do we'll e-mail you a

3258
02:15:19,130 --> 02:15:16,530
copy of secrets of the mysterious valley

3259
02:15:21,950 --> 02:15:19,140
by Chris O'Brien maybe takes a day or

3260
02:15:24,560 --> 02:15:21,960
two but we'll sure do that you know

3261
02:15:27,800 --> 02:15:24,570
speaking of skeptics there's another

3262
02:15:30,230 --> 02:15:27,810
site that I basically run on my server

3263
02:15:33,320 --> 02:15:30,240
but it's managed by Kurt Collins called

3264
02:15:35,540 --> 02:15:33,330
Jim Mosley dot-com it's a memorial site

3265
02:15:38,510 --> 02:15:35,550
to the late Jim Mosley and just this

3266
02:15:40,820 --> 02:15:38,520
week we've got a very nice letter posted

3267
02:15:43,700 --> 02:15:40,830
there from none other than James Randi

3268
02:15:47,270 --> 02:15:43,710
who was sort of a friend of Jim's for a

3269
02:15:49,490 --> 02:15:47,280
number of years mm-hmm interesting even

3270
02:15:51,950 --> 02:15:49,500
the abrasive mr. randy was not so

3271
02:15:55,130 --> 02:15:51,960
abrasive now a long time ago back when I

3272
02:15:57,320 --> 02:15:55,140
was doing a radio show in Vermont I went

3273
02:15:58,790 --> 02:15:57,330
down to New York and interviewed Randy

3274
02:16:03,470 --> 02:15:58,800
on a couple of things he was pretty nice

3275
02:16:06,410 --> 02:16:03,480
then too Randy has retaken over the

3276
02:16:10,040 --> 02:16:06,420
presidential slot in his organization oh

3277
02:16:11,930 --> 02:16:10,050
he has I find yeah his former president

3278
02:16:13,610 --> 02:16:11,940
too who was a sitting president there's

3279
02:16:14,990 --> 02:16:13,620
nowhere to be found now all references

3280
02:16:16,610 --> 02:16:15,000
have been taken off about him and

3281
02:16:19,100 --> 02:16:16,620
there's some question to whether the

3282
02:16:21,110 --> 02:16:19,110
foundation is undergoing some financial

3283
02:16:22,400 --> 02:16:21,120
troubles yeah I honestly don't know

3284
02:16:24,560 --> 02:16:22,410
anything about that I've been I've been

3285
02:16:26,420 --> 02:16:24,570
at DragonCon in Atlanta for the past

3286
02:16:28,700 --> 02:16:26,430
five days so I've been in conferences

3287
02:16:30,980 --> 02:16:28,710
and trying to avoid getting con crud

3288
02:16:33,259 --> 02:16:30,990
which is a sort of a nerd cold you get

3289
02:16:35,089 --> 02:16:33,269
from being around 60,000 people like

3290
02:16:36,680 --> 02:16:35,099
that and then in airports and so I I

3291
02:16:39,290 --> 02:16:36,690
honestly don't anything about that I

3292
02:16:44,390 --> 02:16:39,300
just got in late last night off the

3293
02:16:45,950 --> 02:16:44,400
plane so I'm able to join us and I have

3294
02:16:48,290 --> 02:16:45,960
a question here from one of our longtime

3295
02:16:51,230 --> 02:16:48,300
posters he's just gone over the five

3296
02:16:52,580 --> 02:16:51,240
thousand postmark it's ufology randall

3297
02:16:54,650 --> 02:16:52,590
up in Calgary Alberta

3298
02:16:57,709 --> 02:16:54,660
he by the way we do not give gold

3299
02:17:00,770 --> 02:16:57,719
watches for posting 5000 messages I

3300
02:17:02,419 --> 02:17:00,780
think we give them a rest cure yeah in

3301
02:17:04,459 --> 02:17:02,429
his post a real post there not one lot

3302
02:17:06,830 --> 02:17:04,469
one line or one word post he really does

3303
02:17:08,959 --> 02:17:06,840
post and he did post a question for you

3304
02:17:10,580 --> 02:17:08,969
Ben and that is there seems to be

3305
02:17:12,919 --> 02:17:10,590
certain factions on both sides of the

3306
02:17:14,719 --> 02:17:12,929
you follow G issue who suggest that

3307
02:17:16,940 --> 02:17:14,729
building bridges between skeptics and

3308
02:17:18,799 --> 02:17:16,950
ufologists is a bit of a pipe dream do

3309
02:17:20,660 --> 02:17:18,809
you feel that the gap between ufology

3310
02:17:23,480 --> 02:17:20,670
and skepticism is so great that the two

3311
02:17:25,129 --> 02:17:23,490
will forever remain mutually exclusive

3312
02:17:26,990 --> 02:17:25,139
or do you think there is a way to build

3313
02:17:30,230 --> 02:17:27,000
bridges and if so where do we start and

3314
02:17:33,139 --> 02:17:30,240
he invites you to join in further

3315
02:17:35,360 --> 02:17:33,149
conversations on this vein at forum dr.

3316
02:17:36,980 --> 02:17:35,370
Peric ascom he's saying come on board

3317
02:17:40,009 --> 02:17:36,990
and let's talk about it so what do you

3318
02:17:41,299 --> 02:17:40,019
think I mean III think that yeah I don't

3319
02:17:43,639 --> 02:17:41,309
see anything wrong with that I mean this

3320
02:17:46,490 --> 02:17:43,649
is you know as far as I'm and I'll just

3321
02:17:49,129 --> 02:17:46,500
you know I I've been doing this for 10

3322
02:17:51,379 --> 02:17:49,139
went out 15 16 years now whatever there

3323
02:17:52,639 --> 02:17:51,389
is and and this is one of the points

3324
02:17:54,020 --> 02:17:52,649
that I try to make when I talk to

3325
02:17:55,639 --> 02:17:54,030
because you know I've I'll give you an

3326
02:17:57,020 --> 02:17:55,649
example I was a couple years back I was

3327
02:17:59,000 --> 02:17:57,030
talking at a Bigfoot conference in

3328
02:18:00,919 --> 02:17:59,010
Pocatello Idaho I was there with Jeff

3329
02:18:02,690 --> 02:18:00,929
Meldrum and couple others and I was the

3330
02:18:04,219 --> 02:18:02,700
token skeptic and you know that's fine

3331
02:18:05,959 --> 02:18:04,229
whatever I you know most people there

3332
02:18:07,820 --> 02:18:05,969
believed in Bigfoot or had experiences I

3333
02:18:09,679 --> 02:18:07,830
was the guy who was saying look you know

3334
02:18:11,959 --> 02:18:09,689
I think there's reasons to doubt Bigfoot

3335
02:18:14,000 --> 02:18:11,969
I'm addressing the audience of probably

3336
02:18:15,530 --> 02:18:14,010
you know two three hundred people and I

3337
02:18:18,110 --> 02:18:15,540
said look you know I'm not the enemy

3338
02:18:20,330 --> 02:18:18,120
here you know yes I'm trying to bring a

3339
02:18:22,160 --> 02:18:20,340
skeptical point of view to this but I

3340
02:18:23,480 --> 02:18:22,170
said I'm not making fun of you there's

3341
02:18:25,310 --> 02:18:23,490
lots of people out there in the real

3342
02:18:27,020 --> 02:18:25,320
world you know walking down the streets

3343
02:18:28,730 --> 02:18:27,030
who think you guys are crazy is it I I

3344
02:18:30,589 --> 02:18:28,740
will take you seriously I will look at

3345
02:18:32,450 --> 02:18:30,599
your evidence you have big photos you

3346
02:18:35,330 --> 02:18:32,460
have Bigfoot evidence I will look at it

3347
02:18:37,429 --> 02:18:35,340
with an open mind and I said you need to

3348
02:18:39,799 --> 02:18:37,439
understand that that that that building

3349
02:18:41,990 --> 02:18:39,809
bridges to skepticism in - open -

3350
02:18:44,450 --> 02:18:42,000
skeptics is for everyone's benefit and

3351
02:18:45,650 --> 02:18:44,460
so when I talk to Bigfoot believers you

3352
02:18:47,240 --> 02:18:45,660
know when I when I talk to Bigfoot

3353
02:18:49,700 --> 02:18:47,250
community and the ghost hunter community

3354
02:18:51,230 --> 02:18:49,710
and I write a books like like scientific

3355
02:18:53,929 --> 02:18:51,240
para investigation from a couple years

3356
02:18:56,419 --> 02:18:53,939
ago my goal is to bring good science and

3357
02:18:58,280 --> 02:18:56,429
good critical thinking and skepticism to

3358
02:19:00,259 --> 02:18:58,290
the investigation it's not to quash and

3359
02:19:02,179 --> 02:19:00,269
debunk it's not - it's not to sort of

3360
02:19:04,040 --> 02:19:02,189
say all this is too silly no it's

3361
02:19:05,870 --> 02:19:04,050
exactly the opposite saying these are

3362
02:19:08,959 --> 02:19:05,880
fascinating subjects crystal

3363
02:19:09,860 --> 02:19:08,969
skulls UFOs crop circles you know go so

3364
02:19:11,959 --> 02:19:09,870
all these things are really cool

3365
02:19:13,520 --> 02:19:11,969
interest to you and whatever if you're

3366
02:19:15,799 --> 02:19:13,530
gonna reach for scientific credibility

3367
02:19:17,330 --> 02:19:15,809
then you have to use good science you

3368
02:19:19,100 --> 02:19:17,340
have to and this is this is sort of

3369
02:19:21,830 --> 02:19:19,110
thing that that ice I try to do with my

3370
02:19:24,230 --> 02:19:21,840
work is not just sort of debunk and

3371
02:19:26,929 --> 02:19:24,240
dismiss and you know be rude to people I

3372
02:19:28,759 --> 02:19:26,939
you know I actually this were touching

3373
02:19:30,709 --> 02:19:28,769
back on the previous question but you

3374
02:19:32,389 --> 02:19:30,719
know among many skeptics and even many

3375
02:19:34,339 --> 02:19:32,399
believers I'm known as a pretty

3376
02:19:36,500 --> 02:19:34,349
open-minded guy I mean there are more

3377
02:19:38,089 --> 02:19:36,510
abrasive skeptics I'm I'm the guy who's

3378
02:19:39,560 --> 02:19:38,099
like yeah I'll look at this let's you

3379
02:19:42,799 --> 02:19:39,570
know let's let's work this out and so

3380
02:19:45,020 --> 02:19:42,809
you know I would hope that that that you

3381
02:19:46,879 --> 02:19:45,030
know the in the future there could be

3382
02:19:49,520 --> 02:19:46,889
many more bridges between the skeptics

3383
02:19:52,429 --> 02:19:49,530
and believers my concern is that a lot

3384
02:19:54,530 --> 02:19:52,439
of times we're using different standards

3385
02:19:56,540 --> 02:19:54,540
of evidence you know I've had people who

3386
02:19:58,790 --> 02:19:56,550
will say to me you know what I saw a UFO

3387
02:20:00,560 --> 02:19:58,800
and you can't talk me out of it where do

3388
02:20:01,580 --> 02:20:00,570
I go with that whose I'm not trying to

3389
02:20:03,710 --> 02:20:01,590
talk you out of it I'm just trying to

3390
02:20:05,780 --> 02:20:03,720
stand what you saw but but if someone's

3391
02:20:08,270 --> 02:20:05,790
gonna come to me with that position that

3392
02:20:11,330 --> 02:20:08,280
they know for a fact what they saw and

3393
02:20:13,010 --> 02:20:11,340
it was the UFO and then who's being

3394
02:20:14,719 --> 02:20:13,020
hostile here I'm not being hostile I'm

3395
02:20:16,520 --> 02:20:14,729
just saying you know give me evidence in

3396
02:20:18,020 --> 02:20:16,530
there so we're operating on different

3397
02:20:20,060 --> 02:20:18,030
standards evidence so I think one of

3398
02:20:22,370 --> 02:20:20,070
them one of the important platforms that

3399
02:20:24,139 --> 02:20:22,380
you could use to build that bridge is

3400
02:20:26,860 --> 02:20:24,149
trying to come to some consensus about

3401
02:20:29,450 --> 02:20:26,870
what constitutes evidence yeah exactly

3402
02:20:31,250 --> 02:20:29,460
you got to have that established before

3403
02:20:33,020 --> 02:20:31,260
you can even begin to have a dialogue

3404
02:20:36,590 --> 02:20:33,030
exactly specially with with it with a

3405
02:20:39,469 --> 02:20:36,600
scientist you know it's there's a lot of

3406
02:20:41,450 --> 02:20:39,479
ignorance in the true believer crowd out

3407
02:20:45,320 --> 02:20:41,460
there there's a lot of misperceptions

3408
02:20:47,870 --> 02:20:45,330
a lot of lazy intellectual or lazy lack

3409
02:20:51,050 --> 02:20:47,880
of intellectual rigor people like to get

3410
02:20:54,650 --> 02:20:51,060
their their all their facts from you

3411
02:20:57,200 --> 02:20:54,660
know History Channel or HD some of these

3412
02:20:58,370 --> 02:20:57,210
really bizarre shows that are on but you

3413
02:20:59,690 --> 02:20:58,380
know you mentioned you spoke at a

3414
02:21:01,910 --> 02:20:59,700
Bigfoot conference we have a couple of

3415
02:21:02,660 --> 02:21:01,920
questions here that wonder where you

3416
02:21:05,240 --> 02:21:02,670
come down

3417
02:21:09,020 --> 02:21:05,250
vesti high folk has been a post of it

3418
02:21:11,179 --> 02:21:09,030
form dr. Peric ascom since 2010 he's up

3419
02:21:13,400 --> 02:21:11,189
at the 1500 mark and he wonders is there

3420
02:21:15,620 --> 02:21:13,410
any evidence for the existence of

3421
02:21:17,870 --> 02:21:15,630
Bigfoot and he says with most stupas

3422
02:21:20,050 --> 02:21:17,880
being found to be dogs of mange can we

3423
02:21:22,029 --> 02:21:20,060
ride off the troopas being a real

3424
02:21:23,889 --> 02:21:22,039
let's look at Bigfoot first I the

3425
02:21:27,130 --> 02:21:23,899
trooper question is pretty obvious if

3426
02:21:28,779 --> 02:21:27,140
you've read Ben's book but what about

3427
02:21:30,670 --> 02:21:28,789
Bigfoot do you think there's any

3428
02:21:33,760 --> 02:21:30,680
evidence that that's out there

3429
02:21:35,920 --> 02:21:33,770
well that's anecdotal yeah I mean and

3430
02:21:38,559 --> 02:21:35,930
I've written about this before and you

3431
02:21:40,599 --> 02:21:38,569
know my my position is not that Bigfoot

3432
02:21:41,979 --> 02:21:40,609
cannot exist I've had people say oh you

3433
02:21:44,979 --> 02:21:41,989
know I saw you're going to be you said

3434
02:21:47,500 --> 02:21:44,989
Bigfoot designs this and like no I have

3435
02:21:49,569 --> 02:21:47,510
never said Bigfoot design exist you are

3436
02:21:51,010 --> 02:21:49,579
incorrect science seemed ago oh you said

3437
02:21:52,989 --> 02:21:51,020
ghosts no I've never said ghosts don't

3438
02:21:55,630 --> 02:21:52,999
exist that's not a scientific position

3439
02:21:57,939 --> 02:21:55,640
all you can say is that the evidence

3440
02:22:01,059 --> 02:21:57,949
offered so far in my experience in my

3441
02:22:02,889 --> 02:22:01,069
research is either that the evidence you

3442
02:22:05,649 --> 02:22:02,899
know supports the position that Bigfoot

3443
02:22:07,929 --> 02:22:05,659
is likely out there or not and in my

3444
02:22:10,029 --> 02:22:07,939
experience in my research which is being

3445
02:22:12,670 --> 02:22:10,039
on quite a while now I don't see

3446
02:22:14,080 --> 02:22:12,680
compelling scientific evidence that a

3447
02:22:15,189 --> 02:22:14,090
group of Bigfoot remember we're not just

3448
02:22:17,260 --> 02:22:15,199
talking about one creature

3449
02:22:18,609 --> 02:22:17,270
same with Loch Ness major breeding

3450
02:22:21,159 --> 02:22:18,619
population breeding pipe so we're

3451
02:22:23,260 --> 02:22:21,169
talking by some estimates six to ten

3452
02:22:26,109 --> 02:22:23,270
thousand Bigfoot in North America alone

3453
02:22:28,000 --> 02:22:26,119
six to ten thousand of them and the fact

3454
02:22:29,380 --> 02:22:28,010
is that at some point you know they

3455
02:22:31,210 --> 02:22:29,390
should be hit by a car they should die

3456
02:22:34,029 --> 02:22:31,220
of natural causes a hiker should find

3457
02:22:36,099 --> 02:22:34,039
one it's just it is so implausible that

3458
02:22:37,449 --> 02:22:36,109
the these populations of Bigfoot are out

3459
02:22:39,670 --> 02:22:37,459
there particularly North America and

3460
02:22:41,739 --> 02:22:39,680
simply not being found and and I would

3461
02:22:44,290 --> 02:22:41,749
say probably even actually earlier this

3462
02:22:45,760 --> 02:22:44,300
year and none other guys you guys mean

3463
02:22:48,210 --> 02:22:45,770
you mentioned it in a previous show but

3464
02:22:50,889 --> 02:22:48,220
there was some very strong evidence

3465
02:22:52,899 --> 02:22:50,899
about the existence of Bigfoot done by

3466
02:22:55,210 --> 02:22:52,909
Brian Sykes he's an Oxford net assist

3467
02:22:57,210 --> 02:22:55,220
and he did a study who came out I think

3468
02:23:00,159 --> 02:22:57,220
about about a month and a half ago yeah

3469
02:23:02,460 --> 02:23:00,169
you're very recent and he did in a very

3470
02:23:05,409 --> 02:23:02,470
good DNA testing genetic testing of

3471
02:23:08,349 --> 02:23:05,419
alleged bigfoot and yetis throughout the

3472
02:23:10,359 --> 02:23:08,359
world and every single one of them came

3473
02:23:16,000 --> 02:23:10,369
down to a known animal somewhere else

3474
02:23:18,250 --> 02:23:16,010
and he found the hair the one was the

3475
02:23:20,889 --> 02:23:18,260
hair of what he thought was an extinct

3476
02:23:23,019 --> 02:23:20,899
form of polar bear that hasn't been seen

3477
02:23:24,460 --> 02:23:23,029
in the old has been in the Himalayas for

3478
02:23:28,840 --> 02:23:24,470
thousands of years yet that's what the

3479
02:23:32,791 --> 02:23:28,850
genetic sample results were of a extinct

3480
02:23:35,071 --> 02:23:32,801
polar bear well find it this is the

3481
02:23:37,501 --> 02:23:35,081
part is it was identified as a polar

3482
02:23:39,691 --> 02:23:37,511
bear yeah so so right so but that's

3483
02:23:41,850 --> 02:23:39,701
that's my point is that not a single one

3484
02:23:44,041 --> 02:23:41,860
of these hundreds of samples turned out

3485
02:23:46,261 --> 02:23:44,051
to be and by the way that was also in

3486
02:23:47,881 --> 02:23:46,271
Nepal if I'm not mistaken the Himalayas

3487
02:23:49,651 --> 02:23:47,891
so this was not this was that actually

3488
02:23:52,140 --> 02:23:49,661
Bigfoot the Bigfoot is specifically in

3489
02:23:54,631 --> 02:23:52,150
North America that would be a Yeti err

3490
02:23:56,640 --> 02:23:54,641
in honesty but but yeah but my point is

3491
02:23:59,821 --> 02:23:56,650
that is that you know you have pretty

3492
02:24:01,680 --> 02:23:59,831
much ironclad genetics data that shows

3493
02:24:03,841 --> 02:24:01,690
that case after case after case after

3494
02:24:07,111 --> 02:24:03,851
case of what is believed or claim to

3495
02:24:09,751 --> 02:24:07,121
Bigfoot hair turns out it's not you know

3496
02:24:11,191 --> 02:24:09,761
we're gonna have a hairy time here I'm

3497
02:24:15,060 --> 02:24:11,201
sorry about that

3498
02:24:17,671 --> 02:24:15,070
this is the episode of puns it's

3499
02:24:19,531 --> 02:24:17,681
terrible mysterious New Mexico no puns

3500
02:24:27,331 --> 02:24:19,541
Ben Radford joining gene and Chris

3501
02:24:30,301 --> 02:24:27,341
you're in the para cast free from the

3502
02:24:37,201 --> 02:24:30,311
shackles of corporate America we're the

3503
02:24:39,001 --> 02:24:37,211
place for independent attack of the rock

3504
02:24:41,401 --> 02:24:39,011
ODEs has been well received by critics

3505
02:24:44,521 --> 02:24:41,411
and readers alike it's a thrill a minute

3506
02:24:46,890 --> 02:24:44,531
story you'll never forget a former US

3507
02:24:48,810 --> 02:24:46,900
military intelligence officer is haunted

3508
02:24:51,271 --> 02:24:48,820
by intense dreams about a beautiful

3509
02:24:54,421 --> 02:24:51,281
woman pleading for his help after a

3510
02:24:56,521 --> 02:24:54,431
terrible battle in outer space but the

3511
02:24:58,411 --> 02:24:56,531
dreams turn out to be true and thrust

3512
02:25:01,441 --> 02:24:58,421
him into a telepathic love affair with a

3513
02:25:03,841 --> 02:25:01,451
woman whose faraway planet is intent on

3514
02:25:06,661 --> 02:25:03,851
destroying the earth and now the

3515
02:25:07,621 --> 02:25:06,671
gripping tale continues in the coming of

3516
02:25:09,720 --> 02:25:07,631
the protectors

3517
02:25:12,571 --> 02:25:09,730
it's the second book of the rockets

3518
02:25:15,081 --> 02:25:12,581
trilogy a galaxy spanning adventure that

3519
02:25:17,640 --> 02:25:15,091
pits our hapless heroes against powerful

3520
02:25:19,321 --> 02:25:17,650
fanatical enemies that threaten the

3521
02:25:22,711 --> 02:25:19,331
lives of freedom loving beings

3522
02:25:25,741 --> 02:25:22,721
everywhere attack of the rockets and the

3523
02:25:29,041 --> 02:25:25,751
coming of the protectors classic science

3524
02:25:32,220 --> 02:25:29,051
fiction at its best available now for

3525
02:25:37,321 --> 02:25:32,230
more details visit rawhides calm that's

3526
02:25:39,541 --> 02:25:37,331
our Ock o IDs calm summertime is safe

3527
02:25:41,640 --> 02:25:39,551
big time at herbal healer Academy

3528
02:25:43,910 --> 02:25:41,650
long-term customers know summer is the

3529
02:25:46,219 --> 02:25:43,920
time to stock up at herbal healer calm

3530
02:25:48,080 --> 02:25:46,229
and for new customers welcome to the

3531
02:25:50,270 --> 02:25:48,090
web's best place to save on vitamins

3532
02:25:52,340 --> 02:25:50,280
minerals and more log on for summer

3533
02:25:54,469 --> 02:25:52,350
specials including all sizes of

3534
02:25:57,320 --> 02:25:54,479
colloidal silver colloidal minerals and

3535
02:25:58,880 --> 02:25:57,330
intestinal freedom on sale choose from

3536
02:26:00,620 --> 02:25:58,890
herbal healers great variety of

3537
02:26:03,380 --> 02:26:00,630
weight-loss products like apple cider

3538
02:26:05,540 --> 02:26:03,390
vinegar hoodia and metabolic complex and

3539
02:26:08,000 --> 02:26:05,550
pro metabolic all on sale now

3540
02:26:10,490 --> 02:26:08,010
also the antiparasite intestinal freedom

3541
02:26:12,410 --> 02:26:10,500
and wormwood plus complex plus stevia

3542
02:26:15,050 --> 02:26:12,420
liquid sweetener and the super enzymes

3543
02:26:17,660 --> 02:26:15,060
all on sale for summer at herbal healer

3544
02:26:19,250 --> 02:26:17,670
calm as always we offer certificate

3545
02:26:21,410 --> 02:26:19,260
correspondence courses in natural

3546
02:26:23,450 --> 02:26:21,420
medicine enjoy same-day shipping and

3547
02:26:25,790 --> 02:26:23,460
free online newsletter log on now to

3548
02:26:27,860 --> 02:26:25,800
herbal healer calm and look for summer

3549
02:26:29,840 --> 02:26:27,870
specials to save big with our nation's

3550
02:26:33,080 --> 02:26:29,850
leader in supplying quality natural

3551
02:26:39,710 --> 02:26:33,090
medicine and education since 1988 herbal

3552
02:26:41,030 --> 02:26:39,720
healer Academy September is National

3553
02:26:42,620 --> 02:26:41,040
Preparedness month so make it a

3554
02:26:44,120 --> 02:26:42,630
September to remember by getting your

3555
02:26:46,610 --> 02:26:44,130
emergency food supply from the

3556
02:26:49,190 --> 02:26:46,620
freeze-dry guy on sale this month our

3557
02:26:50,840 --> 02:26:49,200
2014 Stu butter and potatoes unit you'll

3558
02:26:52,340 --> 02:26:50,850
get one number ten can each of high

3559
02:26:54,440 --> 02:26:52,350
quality mountain house chicken stew

3560
02:26:56,600 --> 02:26:54,450
vegetable stew with beef pilot crackers

3561
02:26:58,760 --> 02:26:56,610
plus the highest quality dehydrated ABC

3562
02:27:00,200 --> 02:26:58,770
stew butter and potatoes for a total of

3563
02:27:02,090 --> 02:27:00,210
one hundred and sixty one half cup

3564
02:27:04,370 --> 02:27:02,100
servings retail value one sixty one

3565
02:27:06,560 --> 02:27:04,380
forty one but not this month the

3566
02:27:08,480 --> 02:27:06,570
freeze-dried guy offers the 2014 Stu

3567
02:27:10,219 --> 02:27:08,490
butter potatoes unit for only one twenty

3568
02:27:12,260 --> 02:27:10,229
three ninety three save over thirty

3569
02:27:14,060 --> 02:27:12,270
seven dollars plenty of protein veggies

3570
02:27:15,800 --> 02:27:14,070
carbs for energy and tasty hearty

3571
02:27:18,530 --> 02:27:15,810
storable food with a shelf life of over

3572
02:27:20,750 --> 02:27:18,540
25 years call eight six six four oh four

3573
02:27:22,850 --> 02:27:20,760
three six six three free shipping to the

3574
02:27:25,490 --> 02:27:22,860
lower 48 states click freeze dry guy.com

3575
02:27:26,300 --> 02:27:25,500
or call eight six six four oh four three

3576
02:27:28,880 --> 02:27:26,310
six six three

3577
02:27:30,380 --> 02:27:28,890
that's freeze dry guy calm hurried the

3578
02:27:32,450 --> 02:27:30,390
National Preparedness month sale and

3579
02:27:34,070 --> 02:27:32,460
September 30th from the freeze dry guy

3580
02:27:36,200 --> 02:27:34,080
the finest freeze-dried and dehydrated

3581
02:27:39,410 --> 02:27:36,210
foods available anywhere for a long term

3582
02:27:42,200 --> 02:27:39,420
storage if you need to say happy

3583
02:27:43,850 --> 02:27:42,210
birthday happy anniversary thank you or

3584
02:27:47,179 --> 02:27:43,860
simply I'm thinking of you

3585
02:27:49,219 --> 02:27:47,189
proflowers.com is the key ProFlowers has

3586
02:27:52,370 --> 02:27:49,229
stunning bouquets like the best-selling

3587
02:27:54,860 --> 02:27:52,380
one hundred blooms for $19.99 plus

3588
02:27:56,840 --> 02:27:54,870
ProFlowers will include a glass vase for

3589
02:27:57,679 --> 02:27:56,850
free sending someone a wonderful

3590
02:27:59,479 --> 02:27:57,689
surprise be

3591
02:28:01,010 --> 02:27:59,489
beautiful flowers scent fresh from the

3592
02:28:02,989 --> 02:28:01,020
field is easy

3593
02:28:05,750 --> 02:28:02,999
choose the bouquet you like pick the

3594
02:28:06,620 --> 02:28:05,760
delivery date and each order is 100%

3595
02:28:09,349 --> 02:28:06,630
guaranteed

3596
02:28:11,779 --> 02:28:09,359
plus all bouquets from pro flowers are

3597
02:28:14,719 --> 02:28:11,789
guaranteed to last at least seven full

3598
02:28:16,550 --> 02:28:14,729
days beautiful fragrant flowers picked

3599
02:28:19,040 --> 02:28:16,560
fresh and sent to your loved one for

3600
02:28:21,620 --> 02:28:19,050
lasting enjoyment to get this incredible

3601
02:28:25,040 --> 02:28:21,630
savings and send someone 100 gorgeous

3602
02:28:27,559 --> 02:28:25,050
blooms with a free vase for $19.99 go to

3603
02:28:29,899 --> 02:28:27,569
proflowers.com click the blue microphone

3604
02:28:33,469 --> 02:28:29,909
in the top right corner and enter code

3605
02:28:49,040 --> 02:28:33,479
plow that's proflowers.com click the mic

3606
02:28:57,469 --> 02:28:49,050
and enter code PLO w the gold standard

3607
02:29:00,319 --> 02:28:57,479
of car normal regular I promise you no

3608
02:29:03,019 --> 02:29:00,329
longer will I utter a single pun there

3609
02:29:05,929 --> 02:29:03,029
will be no puns we accept triple and

3610
02:29:08,840 --> 02:29:05,939
quadruple entendre x' very good but but

3611
02:29:10,189 --> 02:29:08,850
not puns if we can even say it Chris we

3612
02:29:13,429 --> 02:29:10,199
have more questions in the till

3613
02:29:15,410 --> 02:29:13,439
yeah while we're on the cryptic crypto

3614
02:29:17,630 --> 02:29:15,420
topic this one comes from oaken wolf

3615
02:29:20,359 --> 02:29:17,640
who's been a posted for about a year at

3616
02:29:22,639 --> 02:29:20,369
forum dr. Peric ascom where you too can

3617
02:29:25,689 --> 02:29:22,649
ask questions of our wonderful guests

3618
02:29:30,460 --> 02:29:25,699
today is Ben Radford in this book

3619
02:29:32,660 --> 02:29:30,470
mysterious New Mexico or it should say

3620
02:29:36,109 --> 02:29:32,670
demystify in the Land of Enchantment I

3621
02:29:37,910 --> 02:29:36,119
think but while on this cryptic topic

3622
02:29:40,399 --> 02:29:37,920
oaken wolf wants to know what you think

3623
02:29:43,399 --> 02:29:40,409
about the skinwalker ranch and the

3624
02:29:45,139 --> 02:29:43,409
creatures / entities known to be

3625
02:29:48,830 --> 02:29:45,149
residing there I would quibble with that

3626
02:29:50,510 --> 02:29:48,840
comment and I he puts in the the little

3627
02:29:53,179 --> 02:29:50,520
caveat couldn't you poppy residing there

3628
02:29:54,769 --> 02:29:53,189
I don't think so oaken wolf but what do

3629
02:29:58,519 --> 02:29:54,779
you think of this skinwalker ranch case

3630
02:30:01,219 --> 02:29:58,529
how familiar are you with the Kelleher

3631
02:30:05,210 --> 02:30:01,229
nap book for instance or the knids work

3632
02:30:07,729 --> 02:30:05,220
up there the involvement of Chuck filet

3633
02:30:09,900 --> 02:30:07,739
and John Alexander and how put off

3634
02:30:12,840 --> 02:30:09,910
actually was on the board of Ned's

3635
02:30:14,450 --> 02:30:12,850
some pretty pretty high-powered names

3636
02:30:16,830 --> 02:30:14,460
there what do you think of that case

3637
02:30:19,050 --> 02:30:16,840
I'll be totally honest I don't know that

3638
02:30:22,680 --> 02:30:19,060
much about it I have I've certainly seen

3639
02:30:25,170 --> 02:30:22,690
reference to references to it I think I

3640
02:30:26,550 --> 02:30:25,180
have a file on it but I you know I I

3641
02:30:28,320 --> 02:30:26,560
don't know that much about it's it's

3642
02:30:30,270 --> 02:30:28,330
just not one of it's not one of the

3643
02:30:31,740 --> 02:30:30,280
dozens and dozens of dozens of mysteries

3644
02:30:33,720 --> 02:30:31,750
that have actually investigated and

3645
02:30:38,040 --> 02:30:33,730
solved so it's the only one that's had a

3646
02:30:39,600 --> 02:30:38,050
team of really crack scientists studying

3647
02:30:40,830 --> 02:30:39,610
up close and personal to paranormal I'm

3648
02:30:43,560 --> 02:30:40,840
surprised you haven't looked into it

3649
02:30:46,950 --> 02:30:43,570
it's it's a really very very intriguing

3650
02:30:48,990 --> 02:30:46,960
scenario I'm sure it is you know my the

3651
02:30:50,520 --> 02:30:49,000
problem that I have is that in addition

3652
02:30:52,590 --> 02:30:50,530
to writing the books and researchers

3653
02:30:54,390 --> 02:30:52,600
I've got a day job I'm doing editing and

3654
02:30:56,400 --> 02:30:54,400
that sort of thing and violence writing

3655
02:30:57,600 --> 02:30:56,410
and so I as you know Chris you know

3656
02:30:59,850 --> 02:30:57,610
there's only so many hours in the day

3657
02:31:01,740 --> 02:30:59,860
there's only so many mysteries I was oh

3658
02:31:04,230 --> 02:31:01,750
why haven't you looked into this one

3659
02:31:08,490 --> 02:31:04,240
case well because I'm one person and I

3660
02:31:11,460 --> 02:31:08,500
have to sleep well sleep just a minute

3661
02:31:13,650 --> 02:31:11,470
here why do you mean you have to sleep I

3662
02:31:15,600 --> 02:31:13,660
would like to look into that and and

3663
02:31:18,000 --> 02:31:15,610
when I do I'll definitely call Chris and

3664
02:31:19,710 --> 02:31:18,010
and we'll talk about yes you don't have

3665
02:31:23,280 --> 02:31:19,720
to worry about waking up Chris he never

3666
02:31:25,620 --> 02:31:23,290
sleeps sleep last night that's why I'm a

3667
02:31:28,110 --> 02:31:25,630
little kind of raspy this this morning

3668
02:31:30,810 --> 02:31:28,120
if I'm coming on to grasp you let me

3669
02:31:34,650 --> 02:31:30,820
know Ben okay people say I'm not raspy

3670
02:31:36,450 --> 02:31:34,660
enough so maybe they're gonna we do you

3671
02:31:38,970 --> 02:31:36,460
get requests for more raspy nasai find

3672
02:31:41,940 --> 02:31:38,980
that odd yeah I do

3673
02:31:45,150 --> 02:31:41,950
people think I roll over and then guests

3674
02:31:46,860 --> 02:31:45,160
tickle my stomach or something uh you

3675
02:31:48,960 --> 02:31:46,870
know we're supposed to be the 60 minutes

3676
02:31:51,180 --> 02:31:48,970
of the paranormal here we you know

3677
02:31:55,680 --> 02:31:51,190
extraordinary claims require at least

3678
02:31:57,270 --> 02:31:55,690
some evidence right sleep forget the

3679
02:32:00,120 --> 02:31:57,280
extraordinary evidence you know sorry

3680
02:32:02,100 --> 02:32:00,130
Karl no we do require that people at

3681
02:32:04,200 --> 02:32:02,110
least pony up something for us unless

3682
02:32:05,550 --> 02:32:04,210
they're they're just collecting stories

3683
02:32:07,500 --> 02:32:05,560
and they're folklorists and that sort of

3684
02:32:09,090 --> 02:32:07,510
thing and I've actually gotten in

3685
02:32:11,430 --> 02:32:09,100
trouble for asking two probing of a

3686
02:32:14,270 --> 02:32:11,440
question of a folklore so you know it

3687
02:32:17,430 --> 02:32:14,280
runs both ways we don't want to scare

3688
02:32:19,500 --> 02:32:17,440
potential guests away but we do want to

3689
02:32:21,870 --> 02:32:19,510
ask tough questions and and that's why

3690
02:32:23,220 --> 02:32:21,880
we are as popular as we are I can say

3691
02:32:28,320 --> 02:32:23,230
that and gene are we

3692
02:32:29,610 --> 02:32:28,330
popular oh we're popular oh yeah so

3693
02:32:32,041 --> 02:32:29,620
anyway we you know we don't have much

3694
02:32:33,270 --> 02:32:32,051
time left out of the remaining topics in

3695
02:32:35,701 --> 02:32:33,280
the book we've got the mysterious

3696
02:32:37,980 --> 02:32:35,711
staircase and on the you know the plaza

3697
02:32:39,841 --> 02:32:37,990
of Santa Fe to church there we've got

3698
02:32:42,121 --> 02:32:39,851
several other things the Ojo Caliente

3699
02:32:44,190 --> 02:32:42,131
minnow hot springs and some of the

3700
02:32:45,751 --> 02:32:44,200
things around that where do you want to

3701
02:32:47,701 --> 02:32:45,761
go right now with some of the

3702
02:32:50,610 --> 02:32:47,711
information in the book that we haven't

3703
02:32:52,261 --> 02:32:50,620
addressed yet yeah well I mean I guess

3704
02:32:54,121 --> 02:32:52,271
I'll just it might be good just to sort

3705
02:32:56,041 --> 02:32:54,131
of give an overview just on some of the

3706
02:32:58,201 --> 02:32:56,051
other things that the there's a famous

3707
02:33:00,180 --> 02:32:58,211
haunted theater here in Albuquerque not

3708
02:33:03,240 --> 02:33:00,190
not not far from where I am it's called

3709
02:33:05,011 --> 02:33:03,250
the Kimo theater and it's uh it's the

3710
02:33:06,511 --> 02:33:05,021
most famous haunted theater New Mexico

3711
02:33:08,551 --> 02:33:06,521
if not the Southwest and there's a whole

3712
02:33:11,190 --> 02:33:08,561
fascinating story about a young boy

3713
02:33:12,240 --> 02:33:11,200
named Bobby Darnell who was killed and

3714
02:33:14,640 --> 02:33:12,250
he actually was killed I mean that's

3715
02:33:17,341 --> 02:33:14,650
part of the historical record in 1952

3716
02:33:19,801 --> 02:33:17,351
people claimed of it to this day that

3717
02:33:22,140 --> 02:33:19,811
that his his ghost haunts the theater

3718
02:33:23,701 --> 02:33:22,150
and people people who give productions

3719
02:33:25,770 --> 02:33:23,711
there and plays there will leave donuts

3720
02:33:27,990 --> 02:33:25,780
as sort of an appeasement for the ghosts

3721
02:33:30,121 --> 02:33:28,000
and it was if is a really interesting

3722
02:33:31,711 --> 02:33:30,131
story just for me personally because it

3723
02:33:34,411 --> 02:33:31,721
was so well known throughout Albuquerque

3724
02:33:37,650 --> 02:33:34,421
but nobody had actually solved the case

3725
02:33:40,081 --> 02:33:37,660
until my myself in the Co investigating

3726
02:33:41,940 --> 02:33:40,091
and Mike Smith I had done research on

3727
02:33:44,100 --> 02:33:41,950
that and so we ended up solving the case

3728
02:33:49,020 --> 02:33:44,110
it was a fascinating sort of collection

3729
02:33:50,850 --> 02:33:49,030
of ghost stories and folklore and and in

3730
02:33:52,350 --> 02:33:50,860
misinformation from ghost hunters and

3731
02:33:54,301 --> 02:33:52,360
this and that so there was that was a

3732
02:33:57,541 --> 02:33:54,311
really fun story and that was actually

3733
02:34:00,570 --> 02:33:57,551
appeared as in 14 times magazine if

3734
02:34:02,911 --> 02:34:00,580
we're not mistaken so guys the Chimayo

3735
02:34:05,220 --> 02:34:02,921
the sound of a courthouse ghost some of

3736
02:34:07,350 --> 02:34:05,230
you may know that that case I

3737
02:34:08,791 --> 02:34:07,360
investigated was actually on CNN there's

3738
02:34:10,261 --> 02:34:08,801
that there's a Wikipedia page I didn't

3739
02:34:12,270 --> 02:34:10,271
make it but there's a Wikipedia page on

3740
02:34:14,100 --> 02:34:12,280
that the Santa Fe courthouse ghost and

3741
02:34:16,020 --> 02:34:14,110
explains there was this mysterious

3742
02:34:19,350 --> 02:34:16,030
ghostly figure in this surveillance

3743
02:34:23,011 --> 02:34:19,360
camera in Santa Fe about I think about

3744
02:34:24,860 --> 02:34:23,021
89 years ago now and I went and

3745
02:34:27,900 --> 02:34:24,870
investigated it and solved that mystery

3746
02:34:30,030 --> 02:34:27,910
there's Loretta slow chapels Monroe Gap

3747
02:34:32,730 --> 02:34:30,040
miraculous staircase it's a double

3748
02:34:35,220 --> 02:34:32,740
spiral staircase but according to some

3749
02:34:36,211 --> 02:34:35,230
people engineers and scientists say

3750
02:34:38,850 --> 02:34:36,221
should

3751
02:34:41,491 --> 02:34:38,860
exist it cannot exist it's it's a it's a

3752
02:34:43,831 --> 02:34:41,501
structural impossibility and there's a

3753
02:34:45,451 --> 02:34:43,841
whole lore behind that about hey you

3754
02:34:47,881 --> 02:34:45,461
know I got a little inside dope on this

3755
02:34:50,430 --> 02:34:47,891
so oh yeah a friend of mine his neighbor

3756
02:34:53,251 --> 02:34:50,440
moved into bought the property next door

3757
02:34:54,991 --> 02:34:53,261
and he was cleaning out an outbuilding

3758
02:34:56,821 --> 02:34:55,001
and he opened up a trunk and found the

3759
02:34:59,701 --> 02:34:56,831
actual architectural designs for that

3760
02:35:05,781 --> 02:34:59,711
staircase Shh don't tell anybody no way

3761
02:35:09,571 --> 02:35:08,191
architect and he went down there and he

3762
02:35:11,671 --> 02:35:09,581
was scratching his head he said man

3763
02:35:15,121 --> 02:35:11,681
whoever did this that they are very

3764
02:35:17,281 --> 02:35:15,131
talented no absolutely I mean your dad

3765
02:35:20,100 --> 02:35:17,291
was exactly right it's just that the

3766
02:35:23,251 --> 02:35:20,110
question is was it st. Joseph or was it

3767
02:35:29,220 --> 02:35:23,261
someone else no dude that showed up and

3768
02:35:31,861 --> 02:35:29,230
said so the miraculous staircase we have

3769
02:35:34,201 --> 02:35:31,871
I have a section on cryptozoologist I

3770
02:35:37,591 --> 02:35:34,211
have a section on Thunderbirds the giant

3771
02:35:41,341 --> 02:35:37,601
perhaps dinosaur like pterodactyl

3772
02:35:44,671 --> 02:35:41,351
dinosaurs in the sky a investigation I

3773
02:35:46,441 --> 02:35:44,681
did into a haunted bar near action north

3774
02:35:48,571 --> 02:35:46,451
of Las Cruces New Mexico

3775
02:35:50,631 --> 02:35:48,581
oh ho calientes healing waters

3776
02:35:52,770 --> 02:35:50,641
labyrinths I have a whole chapter on

3777
02:35:56,100 --> 02:35:52,780
some of the miraculous stories about

3778
02:35:58,230 --> 02:35:56,110
healing labyrinths light Rona Santa Fe's

3779
02:36:00,631 --> 02:35:58,240
haunted La Posada hotel which is one of

3780
02:36:03,781 --> 02:36:00,641
the more famous haunted places in Santa

3781
02:36:06,421 --> 02:36:03,791
Fe and chapter 12 is sort of an outlier

3782
02:36:07,861 --> 02:36:06,431
it's about it's a true case of a serial

3783
02:36:10,381 --> 02:36:07,871
killer I had previously written about a

3784
02:36:13,980 --> 02:36:10,391
serial killer for my book scientific

3785
02:36:16,230 --> 02:36:13,990
investigation but there was a actually

3786
02:36:19,041 --> 02:36:16,240
made international news it was about

3787
02:36:21,270 --> 02:36:19,051
five five years ago there was a

3788
02:36:24,270 --> 02:36:21,280
basically a boneyard that was found and

3789
02:36:25,801 --> 02:36:24,280
there was a seer at work here not too

3790
02:36:28,140 --> 02:36:25,811
far from where I live actually and it's

3791
02:36:30,211 --> 02:36:28,150
kind of an unsolved story but I have I

3792
02:36:32,401 --> 02:36:30,221
have some some of the investigations

3793
02:36:33,871 --> 02:36:32,411
behind it so it's a I'm pretty happy

3794
02:36:36,270 --> 02:36:33,881
with the collection of stuff it's got

3795
02:36:38,551 --> 02:36:36,280
this got folklore it's got ghost just

3796
02:36:39,291 --> 02:36:38,561
got you know I've got some UFO stuff

3797
02:36:41,551 --> 02:36:39,301
it's got

3798
02:36:45,331 --> 02:36:41,561
miracles healings the sort of nice

3799
02:36:47,161 --> 02:36:45,341
collection I think of overview of of a

3800
02:36:48,960 --> 02:36:47,171
high strange weirdness in New Mexico and

3801
02:36:50,309 --> 02:36:48,970
and there's much more

3802
02:36:52,590 --> 02:36:50,319
you know I mean I could easily fill

3803
02:36:53,010 --> 02:36:52,600
another two books and maybe someday I

3804
02:36:54,510 --> 02:36:53,020
will

3805
02:36:57,630 --> 02:36:54,520
how long does it take you to write a

3806
02:37:00,510 --> 02:36:57,640
book of this nature well I that's a good

3807
02:37:03,000 --> 02:37:00,520
question in this particular case a few

3808
02:37:04,410 --> 02:37:03,010
of the chapters are sort of expanded

3809
02:37:06,660 --> 02:37:04,420
chapters of things I had done previously

3810
02:37:09,090 --> 02:37:06,670
and so for example I had previously

3811
02:37:10,650 --> 02:37:09,100
written a little bit about the the santa

3812
02:37:12,840 --> 02:37:10,660
fe courthouse ghosts and about the Kimo

3813
02:37:14,820 --> 02:37:12,850
theater and so those chapters they

3814
02:37:16,950 --> 02:37:14,830
weren't pre written but the you know the

3815
02:37:18,179 --> 02:37:16,960
bulk of it was already there overall

3816
02:37:20,130 --> 02:37:18,189
this book was actually finished about

3817
02:37:22,139 --> 02:37:20,140
two years ago it's sort of settled on

3818
02:37:23,790 --> 02:37:22,149
the Shelf it was being peer reviewed

3819
02:37:26,099 --> 02:37:23,800
through you and Empress because nak an

3820
02:37:28,110 --> 02:37:26,109
academic press and so they wanted it to

3821
02:37:30,360 --> 02:37:28,120
be you know very scholarly and you know

3822
02:37:32,849 --> 02:37:30,370
and have the facts right which is not

3823
02:37:35,429 --> 02:37:32,859
something as you know happens to all

3824
02:37:37,380 --> 02:37:35,439
books oh yeah in fact a lot of books set

3825
02:37:39,300 --> 02:37:37,390
purportedly our mainstream books don't

3826
02:37:41,219 --> 02:37:39,310
get fact checked anymore the book is

3827
02:37:43,290 --> 02:37:41,229
called mysterious New Mexico Benjamin

3828
02:37:45,750 --> 02:37:43,300
Radford is the author Ben is there a

3829
02:37:47,849 --> 02:37:45,760
place we can find you online if we need

3830
02:37:50,580 --> 02:37:47,859
to get in touch with you well I'm around

3831
02:37:54,150 --> 02:37:50,590
and about you can find me on twitter at

3832
02:37:57,120 --> 02:37:54,160
bt Radford I am on Facebook at Ben

3833
02:37:59,040 --> 02:37:57,130
Radford you can find some of my work at

3834
02:38:01,710 --> 02:37:59,050
Benjamin Radford comm and I also write

3835
02:38:04,410 --> 02:38:01,720
for Discovery News every now and that

3836
02:38:06,300 --> 02:38:04,420
and so on I'm around about Chris have

3837
02:38:08,940 --> 02:38:06,310
Bryan's around and about at our strange

3838
02:38:10,979 --> 02:38:08,950
planet calm our strange planet calm if

3839
02:38:13,559 --> 02:38:10,989
you buy one of his books they have you

3840
02:38:15,269 --> 02:38:13,569
get a print edition of stalking the hurt

3841
02:38:17,460 --> 02:38:15,279
for example he'll sign and number it

3842
02:38:19,380 --> 02:38:17,470
we're also giving away free copies of

3843
02:38:22,260 --> 02:38:19,390
secrets of the mysterious valley by

3844
02:38:26,309 --> 02:38:22,270
Chris O'Brien just go to the para cast

3845
02:38:28,139 --> 02:38:26,319
com the para cast com was a big signup

3846
02:38:30,210 --> 02:38:28,149
form for our newsletter there you sign

3847
02:38:33,900 --> 02:38:30,220
up and a day or two will email you a

3848
02:38:35,429 --> 02:38:33,910
copy of his book how's that go of course

3849
02:38:38,729 --> 02:38:35,439
check out our forms at forum Doctor

3850
02:38:40,269 --> 02:38:38,739
Lapera cast calm foreign but the para

3851
02:38:42,340 --> 02:38:40,279
cast calm

3852
02:38:44,380 --> 02:38:42,350
then Radford thank you for joining us on

3853
02:38:53,330 --> 02:38:44,390
the power cast thanks for having me on

3854
02:38:59,730 --> 02:38:56,820
the para cast featuring gene Steinberg

3855
02:39:02,719 --> 02:38:59,740
and Christopher O'Brien is a copyrighted

3856
02:39:06,450 --> 02:39:02,729
presentation of making the impossible